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this program is brought to you by the

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genesis communications network a world

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leader in talk radio since 1998. visit

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[Music]

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you're in the paracast

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the gold standard of paranormal radio

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and now

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with gene and chris back at the old

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stand a little bit later we'll be

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talking about magic the occult

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hp lovecraft and his influence on the

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cultists

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i'm going to ask also our guest john

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stedman

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about richard s shaver and h.p lovecraft

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was there a connection with shaver's

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dearest well shaver

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thought that lovecraft knew what was

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going on we'll get to that later

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meantime chris is back after taking a

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little time off to try to do some real

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work in the meantime

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last week we featured of course dr

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robert davis and dr marie batchelor who

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was a psychic healer and i kind of

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feel bad chris wasn't able to come on

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the show i thought he'd have a lot of

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insights and important questions as you

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know chris we've had tons and tons

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of responses

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especially because i was kind of

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critical of the psychic healing and the

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explanations have you run into psychic

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healing at all in the course of your

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travels

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yes i have obviously it's pretty

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controversial

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i think a lot of it boils down to how

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much

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an individual who's suffering from

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something really wants to be healed i

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think the the power of

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positive uh

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thought

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in terms of one's um health problem uh i

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think is is absolutely paramount

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so half the battle is is you know

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wanting to be healed you know having

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been here in the sedona area for almost

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15 years i

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worked on

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several dozen

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training seminar videos

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all different sorts of presentations

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dealing with about every modality that

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you can possibly think of

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including soaking your feet and pulling

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all your toxins out of your out of your

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balls of your feet

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well you know is that what she was

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talking about when she said about

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vibrations coming through my feet when

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she subjected me to one of her

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skype-based psychic healings was that

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what it was about

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well yeah your feet

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can be used very effectively

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to pull toxins out of the body and

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you know once you've been

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around a lot of this type of kind of

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alternative health information and

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and stuff for

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as long as i have you you get a little

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jaded about some of it but i i think

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there's something to it i i think i've

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seen um

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uh just to give you an idea of

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a way that you can at least i was able

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to demonstrate the effectiveness for

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instance of chamomile flower essence my

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girlfriend in boston had fallen in love

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with this

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lop-eared rabbit so she bought this

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dang rabbit which

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i told her not to name it because we

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were going to end up eating it and

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she immediately named it but then we had

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to rename it because it started doing

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laps around the coffee table

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and it's excuse me

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yeah it was doing laps

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around the coffee table boinky boinky

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boinky boinky boinky boinky and it did

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this

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for days

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it wouldn't stop

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so

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him

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it was just finally it was just driving

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me nuts this thing was gonna you know

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die from exhaustion so we took a little

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bit of flour essence and rubbed it on

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its nose

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you know chamomile which is supposedly

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going to be calming

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and we put some in the in the water and

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he

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so

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lap learned how not to

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do laps

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you had not a lap dog but a lap rabbit

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yeah well you know it's interesting here

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our dog teddy bear whom you know

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he's hung around you

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bichons are known to do that kind of

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thing where suddenly they'll start

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scurrying or doing laps around the room

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at a very fast pace but they only do it

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for a few seconds at a time it's like

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our dog wants to be the flash or

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something

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right but it has to be in a certain kind

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of playful mood

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we just get so excited

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it has to let off steam

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that happens maybe every few days i

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should really take a picture of it and

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put it up in the forums i think people

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might like it

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in any case here what i'm seeing from

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what you're telling me about psychic

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healing it's not the practitioner so

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much

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except insofar as they put you into a

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state where you could let your own

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abilities whatever they are

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mind over matter or whatever

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engage in

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advancing the healing process

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well i think i think a lot of it does

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boil down to being open

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for healing

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but i don't i think the practitioner has

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a lot to do with it as well to take it

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to the next level

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you need a practitioner who is well

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versed in the particular modalities that

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they're you know operating with and

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and there are many different ways to

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you know look at

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a particular health issue

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it can be looked at from

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many different ways

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from many different perspectives

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utilizing the knowledge and educational

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awareness of many different modalities

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so

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for

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certain types of maladies others are i

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think more suited for others so

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there you go

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but again it requires some input from

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the practitioner is it simply putting

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you

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in the proper state of mind to allow

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well it depends it depends on on what it

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is that

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is being done

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number one

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i think in in some cases um

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where stuff is potentially psychosomatic

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yeah i think it's really important to

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get

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um mindset going

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and uh

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i think that's that's really important

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but

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again uh it's i think a lot of it's

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hinging on exactly what uh

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what it is that you're attempting to

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accomplish um

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in terms of healing

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so yeah um yeah i i will be interested

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to um

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to listen to the show i haven't had a

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chance to listen to it yet but uh

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thanks to uh erica uh well actually i

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don't think erica

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helped you with the show did she i think

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she was on the um

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after the

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she was on actually power cast i would

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have loved to have her on i think she's

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one of our best

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guest co-hosts she's really masterful

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the way she does it

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because she's a counterpoint to me i'm

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the skeptical journalist

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and she probes very gently

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and i think she works that way with

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either of us and i think it was good but

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she wasn't available for that

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she was available for after the power

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casper i gave my observations my concern

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here is that

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not that marie batchelor is not a nice

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woman and

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you know we know that she went

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through tragedy because her

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four-year-old child was struck by a

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vehicle and she witnessed that it has to

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be the worst thing that happens in your

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life and i guess underwent this kind of

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epiphany or revelation in the years

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following and i guess she was trying to

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refine herself again and she got into

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this my problem with it is

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that when she tries to explain what's

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going on it's just word salad

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as if she really doesn't know and i

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don't think a lot of people do they try

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to find an answer she could say it's

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vibrations and higher beings others can

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say they're in touch with

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someone's dead relative or with god or

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something else i don't think those

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explanations have any meaning

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i don't think they matter

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in the scheme of things why it happens

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but certainly if someone can put you in

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a state where

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you can relax and

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it helps the healing process

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i see nothing wrong with that

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because i think if a person

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lacks the will to live especially if

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they're very sick

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all that will do

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is

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make it more difficult for them to

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recover i can tell you some stories

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about my late brother-in-law

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when he was in mayo clinic in scottsdale

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and the way they treated him in his last

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days was i thought reprehensible but i

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like into the politics of that

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you know

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i wish that on nobody even the people i

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hate well maybe there are a couple of

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people i'd worry about

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in any case we mentioned after the power

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cast which is part of our

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power cast plus package you get it

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exclusively if you subscribe to powergas

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plus at

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plus.theparacast.com that's p l u s dot

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the power cast dot com

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we'll talk more about that later right

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now we have

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coming up john l stedman

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he's author of a book called hp

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lovecraft and the black magical

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tradition more to come with gene and

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[Music]

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we also have swag you know we have all

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these exclusive power cast things that

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store dot the powercast.com

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store.thepowercast.com what makes

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special is that the items are the best

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361
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363
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364
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365
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366
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367
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368
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369
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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

370
00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:16,000
comment or question about the paracast

371
00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:19,600
send it to news at theparecast.com

372
00:14:24,629 --> 00:14:22,800
that's news at the paracast.com

373
00:14:27,110 --> 00:14:24,639
and don't forget to visit our famous

374
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:27,120
paracast community forums at

375
00:14:35,829 --> 00:14:33,509
so i should say here that we ran to a

376
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:35,839
few skype glitches but we are finally

377
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:37,519
talking to our guest

378
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:40,720
john l stettman is author of hp

379
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:43,360
lovecraft and the black

380
00:14:45,829 --> 00:14:44,639
magical

381
00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:45,839
tradition

382
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:49,279
and i noticed the name of the publisher

383
00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:51,519
red wheel wiser is that

384
00:14:55,269 --> 00:14:53,600
a descendant of the original samuel

385
00:14:57,189 --> 00:14:55,279
weiser bookstore

386
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:57,199
yeah it sure is you know when i was a

387
00:15:01,750 --> 00:14:59,279
young kid going to uh undergraduate

388
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,760
university at michigan state university

389
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:03,360
they were the number one

390
00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:05,040
new age publishers they didn't call a

391
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:06,720
new age publishing that then they called

392
00:15:10,629 --> 00:15:07,920
it a cult

393
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:10,639
or a magic but that's a descendant of

394
00:15:15,189 --> 00:15:12,800
that original samuel weisser i have a

395
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:15,199
ton of books in my library from the 70s

396
00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:18,079
they put out well even before then

397
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:19,760
i would visit their store in new york

398
00:15:23,829 --> 00:15:22,320
city i go to the basement

399
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:23,839
and they had all the closeout books

400
00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:26,000
there you know i couldn't afford as a

401
00:15:29,750 --> 00:15:27,760
teenager to spend

402
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:29,760
you know fifteen dollars for a book or

403
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:32,000
something like that so for two dollars

404
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:34,320
i buy a new ufo book

405
00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:36,320
or for maybe three four dollars i buy a

406
00:15:39,750 --> 00:15:37,519
magazine

407
00:15:42,389 --> 00:15:39,760
and i kept myself abreast of all the

408
00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:42,399
power and all those subjects and i

409
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:44,240
basically instead of doing homework

410
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:46,560
sometimes after school i'd run over

411
00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:48,480
there for a couple of hours and hang

412
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:49,920
gosh you know i wish i could have had

413
00:15:53,749 --> 00:15:51,680
access to a place i used to have to

414
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:53,759
drive to ann arbor they had a new age

415
00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:56,000
bookstore in ann arbor and they carried

416
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:57,199
all those books there you know but it

417
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:59,040
would have been nice to actually have

418
00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:01,440
that bookstore or the magic child

419
00:16:03,990 --> 00:16:03,120
bookstore they used to have in new york

420
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:04,000
city

421
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:05,519
in the 60s you know i would have loved

422
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:06,480
to have been

423
00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:08,399
able to go into places like that

424
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:10,000
i think it's still there

425
00:16:14,069 --> 00:16:12,480
uh is it really magic child

426
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:14,079
the magical child yeah

427
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:15,839
i'm pretty sure it is

428
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:17,279
i'll be done

429
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:18,639
i thought they went out of business a

430
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:20,720
long time ago you know with uh

431
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:23,120
i think what was his name barnes the guy

432
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:25,040
that used to run it i thought they went

433
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,440
out like in the sixties but it's still

434
00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:29,440
there i'm very it was still going in the

435
00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:31,519
80s i know that i lived in new york

436
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:34,240
until 87 they were there until the until

437
00:16:40,389 --> 00:16:36,560
the mid to late 80s at least

438
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:40,399
magical child bookstore 35 west 19th

439
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:42,800
street new york new york between fifth

440
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:43,920
avenue

441
00:16:50,069 --> 00:16:48,240
yeah it was in my old neighborhood

442
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:50,079
it's still there right it's still there

443
00:16:54,150 --> 00:16:52,399
it says pretty niche you know barnes and

444
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:54,160
noble's not going to put a an operation

445
00:16:58,949 --> 00:16:56,079
like that out of business uh they're

446
00:17:00,310 --> 00:16:58,959
just too many rare books and books that

447
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:00,320
really don't have

448
00:17:03,829 --> 00:17:02,240
a wide appeal

449
00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:03,839
but that must have been fun so how did

450
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:06,240
you get involved in

451
00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:07,600
looking into

452
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:09,760
the works of hp lovecraft because i see

453
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:11,520
here you kind of started

454
00:17:16,309 --> 00:17:14,000
much the way i did as a fan of horror

455
00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:16,319
fantasy and sci-fi

456
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:18,160
so did you ever have any interest in the

457
00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:20,000
occult at that point or did this come

458
00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:22,160
after you got interested in lovecraft

459
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,160
well what i was i was always interested

460
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:26,640
in things like monsters and ghosts and

461
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:28,720
supernatural things when i was a kid in

462
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:31,280
uh elementary school and in middle

463
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:34,320
school too and i used to uh read books

464
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:36,320
like famous monsters you remember famous

465
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:39,120
monsters of film and i used to oh yeah

466
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:41,280
okay all right you read famous monsters

467
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:42,640
of filmland

468
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:44,960
forrest j ackerman the editor

469
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:47,039
he came to my home

470
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:51,360
one time this had to be in the

471
00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:53,760
early or mid 1960s

472
00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:55,760
and what he did is he was taking a trip

473
00:17:59,750 --> 00:17:57,200
around the country

474
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:59,760
and he'd visit the home of readers

475
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,760
and he choose from among those who wrote

476
00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:03,840
him so i said the right things i was

477
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:06,640
living in brooklyn new york and i set up

478
00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:08,240
the place to have

479
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:10,320
you know lunch we had five or six people

480
00:18:13,350 --> 00:18:11,600
invited over

481
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:13,360
and i set up a table

482
00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:14,880
in the living room

483
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:15,760
like

484
00:18:20,549 --> 00:18:18,000
a talk radio studio with multiple

485
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:20,559
microphones and a pair of tape recorders

486
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:22,160
so i actually tape the thing i don't

487
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:23,919
have the tape anymore folks sorry you

488
00:18:28,789 --> 00:18:25,679
would have loved to have heard me when i

489
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:28,799
was 17 years old or maybe you wouldn't i

490
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,320
have no idea

491
00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:32,400
but i got to know forest jay ackerman

492
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:34,400
there and i met him on a few more

493
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:37,200
occasions i never visited the akker

494
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:40,880
mansion though in l.a boy why an emmy as

495
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:42,880
you get older you'll see this

496
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:45,120
well a friend of the show paul davids uh

497
00:18:48,390 --> 00:18:47,039
recently was part of a

498
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:48,400
ceremony to

499
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:50,799
name a boulevard in l.a after him

500
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:53,280
they just had a celebration of his life

501
00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:55,120
well that's how i got into you know the

502
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:57,280
monster magazines and i kind of

503
00:19:01,990 --> 00:18:59,280
would read horror stories i liked edgar

504
00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:02,000
allan poe and uh writers like that and i

505
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:04,160
kind of just gravitated toward lovecraft

506
00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:06,000
by accident i was at a bookstore and

507
00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:08,559
there was this paperback that had like a

508
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:10,240
red skull on the cover that looked like

509
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:12,960
it was on fire and a dark background it

510
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:15,280
was a fiction of h.p lovecraft i never

511
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:17,600
heard of him before but i uh bought the

512
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:19,039
book mainly because of that cover you

513
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:20,640
know i figured the book the stories had

514
00:19:23,909 --> 00:19:22,000
to be really good if they had a cover

515
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:23,919
like that back at that time i was

516
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:25,679
reading a lot of horror and ghost

517
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:27,200
stories and they didn't really affect me

518
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:28,320
that much because you get kind of

519
00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:30,640
desensitized to them but i remember the

520
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:32,559
first time i read the color out space

521
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:34,320
and it gave me chills up and down my

522
00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:36,320
spine and that was like when i was in

523
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:38,320
middle school it was a beautiful sunny

524
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:39,919
day when i was reading that you know i

525
00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:42,160
figured that this must be the real thing

526
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:43,840
if it can have that kind of an effect on

527
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:45,840
me you know so then i was hooked on

528
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:47,440
lovecraft and then from there i

529
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:50,000
gravitated toward the occult as people

530
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:51,760
probably do when they get into the magic

531
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,840
and the or the supernatural and the

532
00:19:57,270 --> 00:19:55,679
ghosts and horror first and they kind of

533
00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:57,280
move toward the more new age sort of

534
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:59,280
thing because they want kind of hands-on

535
00:20:02,710 --> 00:20:00,880
experience i guess what they're called

536
00:20:04,470 --> 00:20:02,720
they don't just want to read about now

537
00:20:06,310 --> 00:20:04,480
of course obviously most of our

538
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:06,320
listeners know that lovecraft was a

539
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:07,280
writer

540
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:11,200
of fiction so how does the trip go from

541
00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:12,720
being interested

542
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:15,200
in the fictional writer

543
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:17,840
to looking at magic the occult in terms

544
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:18,880
of fact

545
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:20,880
well i you know it's kind of it seemed

546
00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:23,760
like a natural progression to me to do

547
00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:25,760
that you know but i don't know i guess

548
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:27,919
there's i guess there are fans out there

549
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:29,840
that just like the science fiction

550
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:31,600
horror and they don't feel the need to

551
00:20:36,149 --> 00:20:34,400
go that go to that different level there

552
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:36,159
that different direction but i did for

553
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:38,880
some reason so i really can't compare it

554
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:41,360
to anything i can't really analyze why i

555
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:42,960
went that direction why other people

556
00:20:48,070 --> 00:20:45,679
went other direction but i i did

557
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:48,080
i just went that direction basically i

558
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:49,600
think a lot of the things that helped me

559
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:51,520
in that direction were that i kept

560
00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:53,360
seeing lovecraft being associated with

561
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:55,520
the occult for some reason like back in

562
00:20:59,750 --> 00:20:57,840
those days you had the satanic bible do

563
00:21:03,990 --> 00:20:59,760
you remember the satanic bible anton

564
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:04,000
levay sure in uh 1966 he declared the

565
00:21:07,909 --> 00:21:06,159
age of satan and then the satanic bible

566
00:21:10,149 --> 00:21:07,919
came out then the satanic rituals came

567
00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:10,159
out and he had a section in the satanic

568
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:12,240
rituals on lovecraft the metaphysics the

569
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:14,080
lovecraft and there were rituals in

570
00:21:17,830 --> 00:21:16,559
there and then you would see stuff on tv

571
00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:17,840
like they used to have this night

572
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:20,640
gallery tv show remember that rod

573
00:21:24,789 --> 00:21:23,200
sterling did after the twilight zone and

574
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:24,799
they had a column

575
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,039
yeah where they had a couple uh

576
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:29,520
viginettes on lovecraft and clark aston

577
00:21:33,909 --> 00:21:32,240
smith and so it all kind of seemed to be

578
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:33,919
part of the whole same thing you know so

579
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:35,600
then there was rituals being done and

580
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:37,679
then of course simon's book came out

581
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:40,400
simon's necronomicon came out so it kind

582
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:42,960
of seemed like other people were kind of

583
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:45,120
associating lovecraft with occultism and

584
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:47,280
i was seeing lovecraft being associated

585
00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:49,360
with occultism i guess it must have been

586
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:50,960
all those things together that kind of

587
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:52,720
moved me in that direction but i really

588
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:54,240
don't know i've never really analyzed

589
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:56,240
why i've been fascinated with magic and

590
00:22:00,630 --> 00:21:58,480
new age themes did you actually ever

591
00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:00,640
have any experiences yourself

592
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,000
that were paranormal or ufo related yeah

593
00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:06,720
i did now i did get into magic what i'm

594
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:08,720
doing now is putting together a magical

595
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:12,000
grimoire for the last 30 or so years we

596
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:14,320
see various rituals over those periods

597
00:22:17,830 --> 00:22:15,840
of time then perform them with my

598
00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:17,840
magical assistants and i'm putting

599
00:22:22,789 --> 00:22:20,320
together a grimoire of all those rituals

600
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:22,799
now that'll be my third book my two main

601
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:24,960
books so far is this one that you've got

602
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:26,559
that i sent you that's been published

603
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:28,080
now i've got a follow-up book to this

604
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:30,320
where i explore lovecraft's development

605
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:33,120
what i call the the magical persona and

606
00:22:37,909 --> 00:22:35,840
i show how he was influenced by former

607
00:22:39,510 --> 00:22:37,919
writers toward that and then how his

608
00:22:41,590 --> 00:22:39,520
view of the magical person was quite a

609
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:41,600
bit different quite a bit more complex

610
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:43,200
and how that's inspired future

611
00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:44,240
generations

612
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:47,120
we have john stedman on hp lovecraft

613
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:49,360
magic the occult and more with gene and

614
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you are listening to gcn

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[Music]

713
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:14,470
this is leslie kane and i'm with the

714
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:16,799
coalition for freedom of information and

715
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:20,880
you are listening to the paracast

716
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:23,120
as you see chris adopts a very

717
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:24,880
under-earth kind of

718
00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:27,440
voice for that stingray john stedman

719
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:29,600
joining us and he's telling us about his

720
00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:30,799
early interest

721
00:27:36,390 --> 00:27:33,600
in hp lovecraft the fiction and then of

722
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:36,400
course navigating to the facts and then

723
00:27:40,149 --> 00:27:37,760
we're getting into your personal

724
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:40,159
experiences which you can go on with

725
00:27:44,390 --> 00:27:42,640
okay well i've had a lot of magical

726
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:44,400
experience and i'll be in the grimoire

727
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:46,480
course and we'll talk about that later

728
00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:48,000
or not at all

729
00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:50,240
but i'll talk about my things i guess i

730
00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:52,640
had two experiences that weren't magical

731
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:54,640
because i didn't actually

732
00:27:58,070 --> 00:27:56,399
i wasn't in any kind of intellectual

733
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:58,080
decompression situation where i was

734
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:59,360
actually creating there and making it

735
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:01,440
available and so these happen just the

736
00:28:05,269 --> 00:28:03,360
way they would happen to just a normal

737
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:05,279
person it's not a magical practitioner

738
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:06,480
so i have to assume that they're

739
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:08,640
paranormal one of them's paranormal and

740
00:28:13,269 --> 00:28:11,120
one of them's ufo the

741
00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:13,279
paranormal one is kind of weird i we

742
00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:15,360
used to go up to clare michigan and we'd

743
00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:18,480
stay at this cottage on lake 13 and i

744
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:20,080
remember

745
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:22,159
this only happened up there but my mom

746
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:24,399
and dad were both alive then and what we

747
00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:26,320
do there was like two bedrooms there and

748
00:28:30,149 --> 00:28:28,720
one bedroom had two beds and my dad

749
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:30,159
would sleep in one i would sleep in the

750
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:32,320
other and then the other bedroom across

751
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:34,320
the these all kind of let on the main

752
00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:36,240
living room and then in the other

753
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:38,000
bedroom my twin brother would sleep in

754
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:39,200
there and then our grandparents would

755
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:41,039
sleep in the other one and my mom there

756
00:28:44,389 --> 00:28:42,640
was no place for her to sleep so she'd

757
00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:44,399
sleep on the sofa in the living room now

758
00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:46,159
it was a very big living room it would

759
00:28:49,269 --> 00:28:48,080
get fearfully dark at night up there

760
00:28:52,230 --> 00:28:49,279
they didn't have any street lights or

761
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:52,240
anything like that she would lay down on

762
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:53,760
that sofa there and she would fall

763
00:28:58,149 --> 00:28:55,600
asleep and this was really weird this

764
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:58,159
only happened to me each in the evenings

765
00:29:01,510 --> 00:28:59,840
when we were living there but

766
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:01,520
everybody be asleep right i'd be

767
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,360
sleeping in the bedroom and for some

768
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:05,679
reason i would always wake up sometime

769
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:07,760
after midnight i just always wake up and

770
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:09,919
then i would go the further bed and look

771
00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:12,000
out into the living room and i'd see my

772
00:29:16,149 --> 00:29:14,159
mom laying there on the sofa i'd see her

773
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:16,159
shape now there was like a night light

774
00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:17,840
in there so you could it was very dim

775
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:18,960
you couldn't see anything but you could

776
00:29:23,269 --> 00:29:21,039
just make out shapes but then it was

777
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:23,279
really weird i'd be watching her and

778
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:25,120
then suddenly it seemed like she was

779
00:29:29,269 --> 00:29:26,880
getting out of her body or something it

780
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:29,279
was her gain all the body and i could

781
00:29:33,269 --> 00:29:31,279
see like a kind of a bright white

782
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,279
outline around the shape of her but i

783
00:29:37,269 --> 00:29:35,440
could see through the shape of her and

784
00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:37,279
what she would do she would she leave

785
00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:40,240
the sofa and she'd go over to a rocking

786
00:29:43,110 --> 00:29:41,600
chair there was a rocking chair out

787
00:29:45,190 --> 00:29:43,120
there in front of the fireplace and then

788
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:45,200
she would start to rock her shape was

789
00:29:49,510 --> 00:29:47,279
still there but then this was similacrum

790
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:49,520
or whatever it was was rocking in the

791
00:29:51,669 --> 00:29:50,720
rocking chair

792
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:51,679
and then

793
00:30:01,990 --> 00:29:57,840
start walking

794
00:30:03,190 --> 00:30:02,000
with her arms out and she had a really i

795
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:03,200
could see through her but she had a

796
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:05,279
really evil or kind of weird look on her

797
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:07,600
face one that i'd never seen when she

798
00:30:12,389 --> 00:30:10,080
was awake it used to terrify me you know

799
00:30:14,070 --> 00:30:12,399
now i'd go back and lay down and what

800
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:14,080
she would do she'd walk like up to the

801
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:15,600
door of the room and then she would

802
00:30:20,549 --> 00:30:17,840
disappear and she'd be back in a rocking

803
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:20,559
chair and one time i felt unusually

804
00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:23,279
brave and so instead of going back to

805
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:26,000
bed i actually got up and she saw me and

806
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:27,760
she was walking toward me i walked right

807
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:29,840
toward her i was actually trembling i

808
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:31,840
was scared to death i was about 13 years

809
00:30:36,789 --> 00:30:34,240
old and i was walking toward her and

810
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:36,799
then when i we almost met she

811
00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:39,120
disappeared she wasn't anywhere in the

812
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:40,720
room but the rocking chair was still

813
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:42,640
moving and then i walked over to the

814
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:44,960
rocking chair and i reached out and put

815
00:30:49,909 --> 00:30:47,919
my hand on and then it stopped

816
00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:49,919
and now i wanted to test that one time i

817
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,200
was thinking well maybe i'm just

818
00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:53,360
imagining this and so one night i

819
00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:55,679
changed beds with my brother and my

820
00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:57,360
brother's room was looking out into that

821
00:31:01,669 --> 00:30:59,360
living room also but from a little

822
00:31:03,269 --> 00:31:01,679
different angle and he never would wake

823
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:03,279
up of course he would sleep like a rock

824
00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:04,960
when he fell asleep so he was in my old

825
00:31:09,669 --> 00:31:07,679
room and i woke up one night and it was

826
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:09,679
the same time as usual i woke up the

827
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:12,240
same time after midnight and then i saw

828
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:14,240
her out in the chair again but i was

829
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:16,240
seeing her from a different view like

830
00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:18,320
she was sitting at an angle and then i

831
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:20,080
saw her walking

832
00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:22,000
toward the room now you'd think if it

833
00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:23,600
was imaginary that she would walk

834
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:25,120
directly toward me because i was

835
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:26,640
imagining it right but she didn't do

836
00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:28,559
that she was walking directly toward

837
00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:30,960
that room i saw her from the side view

838
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:32,480
and then she would disappear

839
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:34,320
and this would happen quite frequently

840
00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:36,640
when we went on vacation up to lake 13.

841
00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:38,720
never happened anywhere else i never saw

842
00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:40,000
anything like that again and i don't

843
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:41,600
know if it's paranormal because she

844
00:31:45,430 --> 00:31:43,600
wasn't dead you could say maybe it was

845
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:45,440
like an astral body or something or a

846
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:48,080
projection whatever it was i guess i'd

847
00:31:52,149 --> 00:31:50,320
have to consider that to be a paranoid

848
00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:52,159
certainly a paranormal experience i

849
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:53,360
don't know if the ghost hunters would

850
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:55,279
call that but that's what i called it

851
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:57,360
chris you wanted to ask something

852
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:59,279
maybe she had some sort of spectral evil

853
00:32:03,269 --> 00:32:01,200
twin that didn't survive the birth

854
00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:03,279
process or something well i don't know

855
00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:05,039
where it was she was a very nice woman

856
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:06,960
you know but that was my uh

857
00:32:11,029 --> 00:32:08,720
that i guess what i'd have to call a

858
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:11,039
paranormal experience i did have a ufo

859
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:12,720
experience up in clare michigan too this

860
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:15,919
was during the ufo craze i when i was in

861
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:17,440
high school just in my last year in high

862
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:18,960
school you want to have time to talk

863
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:23,990
okay well this was a hard experience my

864
00:32:28,149 --> 00:32:26,240
brother was into ufos he read all the

865
00:32:30,630 --> 00:32:28,159
books you know remember those books you

866
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,640
mentioned you draw you drop into the uh

867
00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:32,559
the weiser bookstore and pick up a book

868
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:34,720
on ufos or magazine well you remember

869
00:32:38,230 --> 00:32:36,080
the kind of books they had back then

870
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:38,240
they had like frank edwards

871
00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:40,320
something about flying saucers they had

872
00:32:45,029 --> 00:32:43,519
adamski's books about saucer contact he

873
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:45,039
the interrupted journey i think with

874
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:46,720
barney bayhill they had those kind of

875
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:48,320
books out you know my brother was really

876
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:50,640
interested in ufos and he had a good

877
00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:53,679
friend that was interested in ufos too

878
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:55,760
yeah we were out there at uh the swampy

879
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:57,279
area and we were just driving around and

880
00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:59,200
then suddenly my friend had one of those

881
00:33:02,389 --> 00:33:00,960
original little volkswagen things

882
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:02,399
remember those things you know they were

883
00:33:06,149 --> 00:33:03,760
really terrible in the highway they'd

884
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:06,159
really shake when you got to about 60

885
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:07,679
miles per hour but we're going to the

886
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:10,559
volkswagen beetle right

887
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:12,159
and we uh

888
00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:13,760
there was suddenly something in front of

889
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:15,679
us and it was like hovering along the

890
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:17,519
ground now it's kind of misty out there

891
00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:19,919
and we can't really see it uh but it was

892
00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:22,320
hovering and it was moving as fast as we

893
00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:23,840
would like we would move in there and

894
00:33:27,509 --> 00:33:25,600
move it about the same speed and it

895
00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:27,519
definitely wasn't like a motorcycle or a

896
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:29,760
bike or a car or anything like that

897
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:31,919
it had like a little row of lights but

898
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:33,679
it was just a little bit off the ground

899
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:35,919
like maybe four feet off the ground and

900
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:37,600
it was just hovering there

901
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:39,840
and so we started chasing the thing and

902
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:42,000
we we could never catch up to it we'd uh

903
00:33:45,669 --> 00:33:43,360
go so far

904
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:45,679
and uh it would just keep pace with us

905
00:33:48,870 --> 00:33:47,519
it had perfect control of itself you

906
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:48,880
know so we couldn't catch up with when

907
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:50,559
we increased our speed it would increase

908
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:52,399
its speed when we slowed down so it just

909
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:54,640
kind of stayed even with us

910
00:33:58,149 --> 00:33:56,399
and then at one point

911
00:34:00,549 --> 00:33:58,159
my friend was driving my brother's

912
00:34:02,230 --> 00:34:00,559
friend he stopped the car and then he

913
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:02,240
got out we all got out of the car and we

914
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:04,559
left the lights on he had a flashlight

915
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:07,360
and so he walked to the front of his car

916
00:34:11,829 --> 00:34:09,520
and then he kind of flashed his light he

917
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:11,839
clicked it like twice the flashlight and

918
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:14,320
then the thing blinked twice and he

919
00:34:19,030 --> 00:34:16,879
tried it three times and it did the same

920
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:19,040
thing it blinked three times and they

921
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:20,560
wanted to try something different so he

922
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:22,320
kind of spun the it was one of those

923
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:24,399
old-fashioned uh

924
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:26,000
uh flashlights they used to have and

925
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:28,480
they spun the last the light around and

926
00:34:32,790 --> 00:34:30,800
then suddenly made a whirring sound you

927
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:32,800
know so i guess that was its equivalent

928
00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:35,119
of what he was doing but then we got

929
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:37,839
back in the car and then we were trying

930
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:39,440
to pursue it some more but then it kind

931
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:41,919
of vanished and then i went back home

932
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:43,200
they dropped me off we were staying at a

933
00:34:46,629 --> 00:34:44,399
hotel and they dropped me off at the

934
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:46,639
hotel and when they came back

935
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:48,240
they were driving up and down the roads

936
00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:49,760
for another hour or so but there was

937
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:51,599
nothing else there so i guess i'd have

938
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:53,040
to say that was like

939
00:34:56,950 --> 00:34:55,119
a ufo experience at least it was an

940
00:34:59,109 --> 00:34:56,960
unidentified flying object that's for

941
00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:59,119
sure you know but there's no explanation

942
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,400
for that at all

943
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:02,480
what year is this 60s

944
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:06,240
no this this was yeah around uh actually

945
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:11,200
around 72 71 or 72. okay yeah

946
00:35:15,109 --> 00:35:12,560
yeah there was quite a bit of activity

947
00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:15,119
in the upper midwest uh

948
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:18,640
in um 71 72 and then it all just

949
00:35:22,870 --> 00:35:20,880
exploded in 73.

950
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:22,880
yeah i don't know i those two things

951
00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:25,280
that little ghost thing of my mom

952
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:27,680
and the ufo those are the only two

953
00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:29,040
experiences i've had that could be

954
00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:30,800
classified as paranormal your phone i

955
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:32,480
have no explanation

956
00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:34,480
for any of those you know so i don't

957
00:35:37,349 --> 00:35:35,839
know if that's of any interest to your

958
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:37,359
readers and i don't know what any of it

959
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:39,280
means but uh it was certainly

960
00:35:47,030 --> 00:35:44,710
just having an experience

961
00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:47,040
is enough for some people even if it's

962
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:49,040
only one or two that's more

963
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:51,119
than most people have and certainly your

964
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:53,440
ufo experience is a lot more than most

965
00:35:57,589 --> 00:35:55,680
people who even see ufos have mostly

966
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:57,599
it's just a lightness guy that does

967
00:36:01,430 --> 00:35:58,800
nothing

968
00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:01,440
fact is the closest thing i ever saw to

969
00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:03,520
a ufo must have happened sometime in the

970
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:06,720
1960s and once again i saw light in the

971
00:36:09,750 --> 00:36:07,680
sky

972
00:36:11,349 --> 00:36:09,760
and seemed to be moving slowly and then

973
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:11,359
it seemed to speed up before it

974
00:36:14,550 --> 00:36:12,640
disappeared

975
00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:14,560
but there was nothing distinctive enough

976
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:17,200
there to indicate this was anything but

977
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:19,119
something conventional

978
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:21,359
yeah well what it's done for me it's

979
00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:22,960
opened my mind you know of course all my

980
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:25,680
magical experiences have opened my mind

981
00:36:29,750 --> 00:36:27,359
even further but it's opened my mind you

982
00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:29,760
know i'm perfectly willing to accept

983
00:36:34,470 --> 00:36:32,079
anything you know i if a person can give

984
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:34,480
me some uh if they're telling the truth

985
00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:36,400
and they're giving me some uh

986
00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:38,000
they're being accurate about or being

987
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:39,839
honest or objective about you know i can

988
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:41,280
believe it you know i'm not i've never

989
00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:43,040
won i don't see the point of closing

990
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:44,480
your mind to things i have never

991
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:46,640
understood that we have more to come

992
00:36:59,200 --> 00:36:49,359
with john stedman and gene and chris

993
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:00,310
[Applause]

994
00:37:05,069 --> 00:37:03,839
thank you for listening to gcn

995
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996
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1064
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1066
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1067
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have age-related macular degeneration or

1068
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amd as a wife mother and grandmother my

1069
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sight is precious to me what a relief

1070
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when i found out that treatments for

1071
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some forms of amd are available and that

1072
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1073
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1074
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1075
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55 and over when i started seeing blurry

1076
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spots in the middle of my eye i saw my

1077
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:09,200
doctor she suggested i review the

1078
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1079
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1080
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1081
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1082
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1087
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1088
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1089
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1100
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:04,720
877-878-4203 or go to gcnt.com

1101
00:41:10,370 --> 00:41:16,150
[Music]

1102
00:41:20,069 --> 00:41:17,910
hi this is bryce abel i'm the producer

1103
00:41:21,829 --> 00:41:20,079
of dark skies the co-author of ad after

1104
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:21,839
disclosure and you are listening to the

1105
00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:25,200
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

1106
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:26,510
radio

1107
00:41:36,309 --> 00:41:34,240
[Music]

1108
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:36,319
join john stedman

1109
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:37,680
talking about

1110
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:39,839
the magic of hp lovecraft and his

1111
00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:43,359
personal experiences magical ufos and

1112
00:41:46,550 --> 00:41:44,640
all that in a moment want to mention

1113
00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:46,560
again our second radio show after the

1114
00:41:51,750 --> 00:41:49,280
power cast available only if you

1115
00:41:55,270 --> 00:41:51,760
subscribe to the power cast plus for

1116
00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:55,280
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1117
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:57,440
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1118
00:42:00,790 --> 00:41:59,359
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1119
00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:00,800
we also give you a commercial free

1120
00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:02,960
version of this show and other benefits

1121
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:05,359
i'm going to be putting up some more of

1122
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:08,160
those classical episodes from 2010 and

1123
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:10,240
later and free

1124
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:12,000
over the next few weeks

1125
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:13,520
so that's going to be interesting plus

1126
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:15,040
drpowercast.com

1127
00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:17,839
prices start just a dollar 49 a week how

1128
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:20,319
about that so we're talking here about

1129
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,240
the experiences that set

1130
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:24,720
john stedman on an interesting path

1131
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:27,200
and you mentioned multiple magical

1132
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:29,359
experiences can you tell us some more

1133
00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:31,680
yeah i can go into that very easily by

1134
00:42:35,430 --> 00:42:33,760
the way this book is designed for fans

1135
00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:35,440
of science fiction horror and fantasy

1136
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:37,200
who really have heard a lot that

1137
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:39,359
lovecraft may be a practicing magician

1138
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:42,400
or an unconscious magician or whatever

1139
00:42:45,670 --> 00:42:44,160
and they might have been involved in the

1140
00:42:48,309 --> 00:42:45,680
occult and this book was written

1141
00:42:50,309 --> 00:42:48,319
specifically to address that issue and

1142
00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:50,319
uh what i like about the book is it not

1143
00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:52,560
only explains what lovecraft knew and

1144
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:54,400
how much he knew about magic and it

1145
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:56,880
clears the record so to speak but it

1146
00:43:01,030 --> 00:42:58,640
also actually gives you real and i've

1147
00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:01,040
had a lot of people uh email me about

1148
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:02,960
this or talk to me about this where uh

1149
00:43:07,109 --> 00:43:04,480
the latter half of the book i look at

1150
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:07,119
his influence on the main western black

1151
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:09,119
magical systems yeah but i wanted to ask

1152
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:10,720
you about your experiences first and

1153
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:12,560
then we can go more into the book okay

1154
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:14,960
yeah well my experiences i when i first

1155
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:16,560
started out with magic i was in high

1156
00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:18,720
school and i did pretty conventional

1157
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,880
rituals i would do them just like all

1158
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:22,560
those old grimoires like the key of

1159
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:24,880
solomon they had pre-set rules about how

1160
00:43:28,630 --> 00:43:27,040
to do magic how to set up the circles

1161
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:28,640
how to make the kinds of weapons that

1162
00:43:32,309 --> 00:43:30,319
you use the wand the sword the cup and

1163
00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:32,319
the pinnacle and then they have

1164
00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:34,400
different evocations or invocations and

1165
00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:36,640
i used to do those things i would do

1166
00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:38,880
them and i would get the results i was

1167
00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:41,280
supposed to get i remember i did a uh

1168
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:43,839
evocation of bart's bell one time bart's

1169
00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:46,000
about the spirit of mars it was outdoor

1170
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:47,280
temple and it was all set up the way

1171
00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:49,040
you'd expect it to be set up to kind of

1172
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:52,000
appeal to the martian kind of atmosphere

1173
00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:54,400
and we i had two magical assistants well

1174
00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:55,839
i mean these are the same assistants

1175
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:57,520
that i used for my more lovecraftian

1176
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:58,960
rituals too but

1177
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:01,040
i started out with the more standard

1178
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:03,280
western rituals and we actually did

1179
00:44:07,349 --> 00:44:05,119
evoke the spirit of bart's bill i mean

1180
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:07,359
it appeared in the triangle like it was

1181
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:08,400
supposed to

1182
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:10,400
and we could actually communicate where

1183
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:12,720
we could all see it and stuff but what

1184
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:14,800
bothered me about this experience with

1185
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:18,000
bart's adult is that it was like a stage

1186
00:44:21,109 --> 00:44:19,520
kind of thing you know it appeared just

1187
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:21,119
the way i thought it would appear it did

1188
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:22,880
the kind of things i thought and i kept

1189
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:24,640
thinking in the back of my mind gee is

1190
00:44:28,790 --> 00:44:27,119
this an actual real entity that i'm in

1191
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:28,800
touch with here is this just something i

1192
00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:30,800
create in my mind i kind of brought out

1193
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:32,400
and i really could not answer that

1194
00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:34,560
question and i wasn't really quite

1195
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:36,240
satisfied with the magical results it

1196
00:44:39,829 --> 00:44:38,319
didn't seem genuine to me

1197
00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:39,839
and then uh

1198
00:44:44,309 --> 00:44:41,920
a couple years later i started using the

1199
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:44,319
lovecraftian which i was inspired by

1200
00:44:48,470 --> 00:44:46,720
anton levay's rituals and now i started

1201
00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:48,480
writing my own rituals my own

1202
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:51,200
inspirational rituals and then when we i

1203
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:53,200
started working with those rituals it

1204
00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:55,200
was quite a difference you know i had no

1205
00:44:59,589 --> 00:44:57,440
doubts when i did my own rituals that i

1206
00:45:01,349 --> 00:44:59,599
was actually in touch with something

1207
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:01,359
there was just not a projection for me

1208
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:02,880
there was something out there now

1209
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:04,480
whether i could actually understand what

1210
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:06,400
i was seeing or not or whether my

1211
00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:09,040
perceptions were just clouded by the way

1212
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:10,480
i've been conditioned to see things i

1213
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:12,160
don't know about that but i had

1214
00:45:16,950 --> 00:45:14,000
immediate conviction that what i was

1215
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:16,960
doing was actually hooking up to actual

1216
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:20,720
extraterrestrial or supernatural or

1217
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:22,640
supra natural however you want to

1218
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:24,720
describe the interdimensional however

1219
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:26,240
you want to describe these entities i

1220
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:27,839
had no doubts i was actually in touch

1221
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:29,440
with things they were not just

1222
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:31,599
projections inside me and then at that

1223
00:45:34,390 --> 00:45:33,040
point on would i just work with the

1224
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:34,400
lovecraftian

1225
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:35,520
entities

1226
00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:37,200
okay so the point being here is you're

1227
00:45:41,829 --> 00:45:39,839
not assuming any particular explanation

1228
00:45:43,829 --> 00:45:41,839
for this stuff you're just saying this

1229
00:45:45,750 --> 00:45:43,839
is what happened and i don't know

1230
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:45,760
well i can't really because there's no

1231
00:45:50,230 --> 00:45:48,240
way to empirically prove i can't really

1232
00:45:52,069 --> 00:45:50,240
prove the ontological existence of

1233
00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:52,079
anything that i deal with you know i

1234
00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:53,680
really can't there's no we don't have

1235
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:55,680
any mechanism for measuring that we

1236
00:45:59,430 --> 00:45:57,440
don't have any mechanism for measuring

1237
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:59,440
magic you know whether magic works you

1238
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,440
know so i can't really account for now

1239
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:03,599
uh magical practitioners have their own

1240
00:46:07,349 --> 00:46:06,000
theories about what's going on and a lot

1241
00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:07,359
of them claim that you're you're doing

1242
00:46:11,990 --> 00:46:09,200
something on the astral plane you're

1243
00:46:13,589 --> 00:46:12,000
manipulating ether or you're accessing

1244
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:13,599
through kind of a pseudo time you're

1245
00:46:18,550 --> 00:46:15,839
accessing things that already exist on

1246
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:18,560
the astral plane like god's demons your

1247
00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:21,040
spirits or something like that and they

1248
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:22,640
can have any kind of explanation they

1249
00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:24,240
want for this kind of thing the problem

1250
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:24,960
is

1251
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:27,680
there's no way to empirically verify yes

1252
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:29,520
so i can't really prove anything that's

1253
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:32,240
happening you know so i try and leave

1254
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:34,800
my uh definitions of what i think is

1255
00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:37,200
going on just i kind of leave it at the

1256
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:39,440
door basically what i'm interested in is

1257
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:41,200
if i do a magical experience and i

1258
00:46:45,670 --> 00:46:43,680
gained some kind knowledge of power

1259
00:46:47,109 --> 00:46:45,680
which is what gnosis is magical

1260
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:47,119
experience

1261
00:46:50,950 --> 00:46:49,040
and then i have some kind of outcome or

1262
00:46:52,630 --> 00:46:50,960
some kind of result you know then that's

1263
00:46:54,309 --> 00:46:52,640
all i really care about like when you go

1264
00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:54,319
and you turn on the switch the electric

1265
00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:56,800
switch right you don't have to know

1266
00:47:02,309 --> 00:46:59,119
circuit breakers or what goes on in the

1267
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:02,319
lines outside your house or a b or d c

1268
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:04,079
circuits or whatever nonsense like that

1269
00:47:07,750 --> 00:47:06,319
all you want to do is turn the switch on

1270
00:47:09,589 --> 00:47:07,760
if the lights come on that's your

1271
00:47:11,190 --> 00:47:09,599
objective right well that's the way i've

1272
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:11,200
been viewing magic over the years you

1273
00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:13,200
know if i get some kind of result and

1274
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:15,760
i'm satisfied with it then i'm fine with

1275
00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:16,560
that

1276
00:47:21,670 --> 00:47:19,200
now obviously people who have heard

1277
00:47:24,069 --> 00:47:21,680
about what magicians can do may see

1278
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:24,079
magicians at work on fictional tv shows

1279
00:47:29,829 --> 00:47:27,520
like once upon a time or the magicians

1280
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:29,839
which is an interesting tv show i think

1281
00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:32,160
what he's referring to is actually

1282
00:47:36,309 --> 00:47:34,319
practicing high magic in the western

1283
00:47:37,270 --> 00:47:36,319
esoteric tradition what i'm saying to

1284
00:47:39,270 --> 00:47:37,280
you is

1285
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:39,280
you have tv shows here

1286
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:41,920
that pretend magic people altering their

1287
00:47:46,069 --> 00:47:44,000
realities creating spells that kind of

1288
00:47:48,630 --> 00:47:46,079
thing magicians do that sort of thing we

1289
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:48,640
do spells we do spells and those are for

1290
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:51,040
immediate results the only difference is

1291
00:47:55,030 --> 00:47:52,800
usually in those magical shows now i

1292
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,040
haven't watched the magicians but i've

1293
00:47:59,109 --> 00:47:57,200
watched like shows i saw doctor strange

1294
00:48:01,349 --> 00:47:59,119
here that that movie doctor stranger the

1295
00:48:03,589 --> 00:48:01,359
other day that was an interesting movie

1296
00:48:05,750 --> 00:48:03,599
but that's very similar to a lot of the

1297
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:05,760
magical movies too because that one they

1298
00:48:10,150 --> 00:48:07,680
actually do manipulate the astral plane

1299
00:48:11,589 --> 00:48:10,160
so they're actually uh and they can uh

1300
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:11,599
manipulate time they can't really

1301
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:13,520
manipulate real time because there is no

1302
00:48:16,550 --> 00:48:15,040
such thing as real time i mean we all

1303
00:48:18,390 --> 00:48:16,560
live in the presence we can think about

1304
00:48:20,069 --> 00:48:18,400
the past or the future but we can't

1305
00:48:22,069 --> 00:48:20,079
really go there we have to go into some

1306
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:22,079
kind of pseudo time and they kind of hit

1307
00:48:26,069 --> 00:48:24,240
that a little bit in doctor strange they

1308
00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:26,079
have like little different dimensions

1309
00:48:30,390 --> 00:48:28,000
like the mirror dimensions and stuff and

1310
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:30,400
then he does manipulate time at the end

1311
00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:32,720
of it and so magicians do cast spells

1312
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:34,400
and they do those sorts of things but

1313
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:36,000
you notice the thing they always leave

1314
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:37,920
out of it and this is central to magical

1315
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:39,760
practice and they always leave this out

1316
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:41,680
of those kind of magic movies or tv

1317
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:43,920
shows and the harry potter ones too i

1318
00:48:47,430 --> 00:48:45,520
mean they do spells there and sometimes

1319
00:48:49,510 --> 00:48:47,440
they put them in kind of latin and they

1320
00:48:50,790 --> 00:48:49,520
weighed the one so it's kind of similar

1321
00:48:53,349 --> 00:48:50,800
but they always leave the

1322
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:53,359
extraterrestrial entities out and those

1323
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:55,119
are actually the engine or the feel of

1324
00:49:01,270 --> 00:48:58,000
the magical ritual i define magic as the

1325
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:01,280
use of language gestures symbolic

1326
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:03,760
objects and stylized settings for

1327
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:06,319
achieving contact with extraterrestrial

1328
00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:08,559
entities well first of all let's look at

1329
00:49:12,790 --> 00:49:10,400
that definition of magic

1330
00:49:15,510 --> 00:49:12,800
i i think the the accepted

1331
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:15,520
i guess definition at least in my

1332
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:18,240
experience would be magic is causing

1333
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:20,559
change and conformity to will yeah

1334
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:22,480
that's aleister crowley's definition and

1335
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:23,680
you know what's funny about that

1336
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:25,520
aleister crowley does say that but think

1337
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:27,599
about that definition for a minute he's

1338
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:29,760
saying change it take care conform your

1339
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:31,440
will like right now i'm picking up a

1340
00:49:35,349 --> 00:49:33,599
piece of paper right so it's my will to

1341
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:35,359
pick up the paper and i've changed it i

1342
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:36,880
picked up the paper i could crumble the

1343
00:49:41,190 --> 00:49:39,040
paper up right so when i pick up a paper

1344
00:49:43,510 --> 00:49:41,200
and crumbled up i'm affecting change in

1345
00:49:45,030 --> 00:49:43,520
conformity or will right that's a very

1346
00:49:46,870 --> 00:49:45,040
broad definition

1347
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:46,880
and secondly if you look at aleister

1348
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:49,440
crowley despite that definition when he

1349
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:51,920
did magic he was always interested in

1350
00:49:56,069 --> 00:49:54,160
achieving contact with extraterrestrial

1351
00:49:57,829 --> 00:49:56,079
entities that was the engine for all of

1352
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:57,839
his magic that's where the book of the

1353
00:50:03,349 --> 00:50:00,240
law came from that fueled all of his

1354
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:03,359
magical powers let's talk about lamb

1355
00:50:07,270 --> 00:50:06,319
the first depiction of a gray big-headed

1356
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:07,280
uh

1357
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:11,520
sketch that he drew

1358
00:50:15,750 --> 00:50:13,520
yeah lamb i i ain't catching for me yeah

1359
00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:15,760
a lamb some people associate that with

1360
00:50:20,069 --> 00:50:18,000
aleister crowley's higher self or holy

1361
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:20,079
guardian angel but look at that like he

1362
00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:22,240
conju he says the first thing and he has

1363
00:50:25,910 --> 00:50:24,000
a very narrow definition in the book

1364
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:25,920
magic by the way despite the change in

1365
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:27,920
conformity or will if you read further

1366
00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:30,480
into that book his definition is so the

1367
00:50:35,030 --> 00:50:33,280
primary magical ritual is to achieve

1368
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:35,040
contact with your higher self where he

1369
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:36,960
called it the holy guardian angel that's

1370
00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:39,119
an extraterrestrial entity and you'll

1371
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:41,200
find that all magical practices i don't

1372
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:42,880
care who they are they could be chaos

1373
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:46,160
magicians they could be voodoos they

1374
00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:49,040
could be typhonian people they could be

1375
00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:51,839
the wiccans they could be any number of

1376
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:54,240
different magical groups of sameness

1377
00:50:57,710 --> 00:50:56,480
it's always boils down to achieving

1378
00:51:00,390 --> 00:50:57,720
contact with some kind of

1379
00:51:01,430 --> 00:51:00,400
extraterrestrial entity because this is

1380
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:01,440
more

1381
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,599
than i usually expect when we have a

1382
00:51:08,230 --> 00:51:05,760
discussion of this nature okay you're

1383
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:08,240
talking about extraterrestrial entities

1384
00:51:11,670 --> 00:51:09,680
in which case let's

1385
00:51:13,589 --> 00:51:11,680
source this and see why you think this

1386
00:51:14,950 --> 00:51:13,599
is so and let's do that in our next

1387
00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:14,960
segment okay

1388
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:16,800
because this is obviously going to be a

1389
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:19,280
wide-ranging kind of subject here we're

1390
00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:22,000
talking to john stedman and he's got a

1391
00:51:26,230 --> 00:51:24,960
fascinating book about magic but now

1392
00:51:28,230 --> 00:51:26,240
he's telling us

1393
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:28,240
when you get involved in magic you're in

1394
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:29,359
touch with

1395
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:31,680
etie where to come with jean and chris

1396
00:51:35,670 --> 00:51:33,760
you're in yeah

1397
00:51:41,380 --> 00:51:35,680
chris has to end it with gene and chris

1398
00:51:41,390 --> 00:51:50,230
[Music]

1399
00:51:57,829 --> 00:51:53,750
thank you for listening to gcn

1400
00:51:59,910 --> 00:51:57,839
be sure to visit gcnlive.com today

1401
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1405
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a former u s military intelligence

1406
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officer is haunted by intense dreams

1407
00:52:14,549 --> 00:52:12,160
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1408
00:52:15,589 --> 00:52:14,559
help after a terrible battle in outer

1409
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:15,599
space

1410
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but the dreams turn out to be true and

1411
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thrust him into a telepathic love affair

1412
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1413
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1414
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1425
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[Applause]

1451
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:10,079
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1452
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:13,680
standard of paranormal radio

1453
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:14,960
and now

1454
00:54:21,829 --> 00:54:18,290
here's gene steinberg

1455
00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:23,349
okay so

1456
00:54:28,309 --> 00:54:26,480
when you call out a magical spell or try

1457
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:28,319
to access this power

1458
00:54:33,270 --> 00:54:30,240
you're calling on

1459
00:54:35,670 --> 00:54:33,280
e.t please explain yeah okay well i keep

1460
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:35,680
that definition very open too and i try

1461
00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:37,599
and keep it open in that book as well

1462
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:39,680
what i mean i i want to have the brass

1463
00:54:42,710 --> 00:54:40,880
interpretation what i mean

1464
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:42,720
extraterrestrial i know what you think

1465
00:54:46,630 --> 00:54:44,079
when you think extraterrestrial you

1466
00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:46,640
think of something some ontological

1467
00:54:50,309 --> 00:54:49,040
creature that's of some kind of form and

1468
00:54:52,549 --> 00:54:50,319
substance at least it's kind of

1469
00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:52,559
compatible to our own and dwelling on

1470
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:54,079
some other plant and then the

1471
00:54:57,430 --> 00:54:55,920
lovecraftian theme in a lot of his

1472
00:54:59,430 --> 00:54:57,440
stories where these alien beings

1473
00:55:00,870 --> 00:54:59,440
colonize the earth in the past and

1474
00:55:02,630 --> 00:55:00,880
they're still living here in hidden in a

1475
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:02,640
remote place and they actually kind of

1476
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:05,040
jump jump start the evolution of mankind

1477
00:55:08,230 --> 00:55:06,880
that's where the whole alien astronaut

1478
00:55:10,470 --> 00:55:08,240
theory got started by the way it got

1479
00:55:11,829 --> 00:55:10,480
started with lovecraft people like eric

1480
00:55:13,829 --> 00:55:11,839
von daniken

1481
00:55:14,549 --> 00:55:13,839
and then paulie and berger who were two

1482
00:55:16,150 --> 00:55:14,559
friends

1483
00:55:18,069 --> 00:55:16,160
there were others there were others not

1484
00:55:20,470 --> 00:55:18,079
only there were others lebrinzia the

1485
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:20,480
poor trench you know even geez

1486
00:55:24,309 --> 00:55:22,640
churchwood looking at the maya you know

1487
00:55:26,549 --> 00:55:24,319
where it started our lovecraft stuff was

1488
00:55:29,349 --> 00:55:26,559
written like in the uh late twenties and

1489
00:55:31,270 --> 00:55:29,359
the thirties he died in 1937. he has a

1490
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:31,280
lot of stories like the cough cathedral

1491
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:33,520
shadow of time where he actually talks

1492
00:55:37,349 --> 00:55:35,200
about the alien astronauts and this was

1493
00:55:39,270 --> 00:55:37,359
picked up by two guys named pauline

1494
00:55:40,710 --> 00:55:39,280
berger frenchman in the 60s and they

1495
00:55:41,910 --> 00:55:40,720
published the morning of the magicians

1496
00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:41,920
and they're the first people that

1497
00:55:46,069 --> 00:55:43,920
actually formally postulate that alien

1498
00:55:48,710 --> 00:55:46,079
astronaut theory and then these other

1499
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:48,720
guys picked it up like robert chiro did

1500
00:55:52,630 --> 00:55:50,000
life for the masters of the world that

1501
00:55:54,950 --> 00:55:52,640
was in 1967

1502
00:55:57,430 --> 00:55:54,960
i think and popularized it and then eric

1503
00:55:58,950 --> 00:55:57,440
von danican came along 71 he popularized

1504
00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:58,960
everything and what's interesting about

1505
00:56:03,030 --> 00:56:00,960
him in the introduction to that book he

1506
00:56:05,349 --> 00:56:03,040
mentions that he's trying to answer

1507
00:56:07,030 --> 00:56:05,359
questions posed by those people those

1508
00:56:08,630 --> 00:56:07,040
other people that i mentioned so that

1509
00:56:10,870 --> 00:56:08,640
started everything then you have robert

1510
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:10,880
temple coming along with a serious

1511
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:12,640
mystery and then of course you did have

1512
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:15,119
church word and then you had the move

1513
00:56:18,950 --> 00:56:17,520
and all those kind the atlantis and all

1514
00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:18,960
that kind of stuff but lovecraft

1515
00:56:22,390 --> 00:56:20,640
actually was a progenitor of that

1516
00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:22,400
there's actually a good book on that by

1517
00:56:25,910 --> 00:56:24,000
the way written by a guy that's a

1518
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:25,920
notorious skeptic but he is called the

1519
00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:28,079
cult of alien gods and he traces it

1520
00:56:32,069 --> 00:56:30,240
pretty well in that book i leave this

1521
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:32,079
open here because i don't really care

1522
00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:33,359
how you interpret them now in

1523
00:56:37,589 --> 00:56:35,680
lovecraft's work you have all three

1524
00:56:39,990 --> 00:56:37,599
kinds of extraterrestrial entities and

1525
00:56:41,430 --> 00:56:40,000
these are the three that i mentioned i i

1526
00:56:43,829 --> 00:56:41,440
kind of boiled down to you've got the

1527
00:56:46,309 --> 00:56:43,839
aliens living on other planets and then

1528
00:56:47,829 --> 00:56:46,319
you've got the interdimensional entities

1529
00:56:49,349 --> 00:56:47,839
and lovecraft allows for this

1530
00:56:51,670 --> 00:56:49,359
possibility too they're just simply

1531
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:51,680
things they're in your own mind and when

1532
00:56:55,670 --> 00:56:53,760
you do the magical rituals you're

1533
00:56:57,349 --> 00:56:55,680
actually accessing higher powers in your

1534
00:56:59,910 --> 00:56:57,359
mind somebody could claim that aleister

1535
00:57:02,549 --> 00:56:59,920
crowley's holy guardian angel was

1536
00:57:04,230 --> 00:57:02,559
actually crawling himself just kind of

1537
00:57:06,789 --> 00:57:04,240
in his own mind the way they perceived

1538
00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:06,799
himself so i leave open all three of

1539
00:57:11,270 --> 00:57:08,880
those views and we see those three views

1540
00:57:12,390 --> 00:57:11,280
in lovecraft's work and i personally

1541
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:12,400
don't care

1542
00:57:16,789 --> 00:57:14,559
how you want to interpret them like i

1543
00:57:18,470 --> 00:57:16,799
said before the magic works it works by

1544
00:57:20,789 --> 00:57:18,480
i'll tell you one thing it needs an

1545
00:57:22,950 --> 00:57:20,799
engine to work and the engines are the

1546
00:57:24,789 --> 00:57:22,960
extraterrestrial entities however you

1547
00:57:27,030 --> 00:57:24,799
define them and that's the one thing

1548
00:57:29,910 --> 00:57:27,040
that's missing from these tv shows from

1549
00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:29,920
the doctor strange too magic's not being

1550
00:57:34,150 --> 00:57:32,480
fueled by that it's not really explained

1551
00:57:36,150 --> 00:57:34,160
how it's being filled like in the doctor

1552
00:57:38,549 --> 00:57:36,160
strange one he just kind of learns how

1553
00:57:40,390 --> 00:57:38,559
to manipulate the astral and then he

1554
00:57:42,309 --> 00:57:40,400
kind of learns magic he has kind of

1555
00:57:44,230 --> 00:57:42,319
aptitude for but they never explain

1556
00:57:46,390 --> 00:57:44,240
where that magic comes from you're

1557
00:57:48,950 --> 00:57:46,400
putting the astral then on another

1558
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:48,960
planet i don't really know what the

1559
00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:50,799
astral plane is if you want my honest

1560
00:57:55,270 --> 00:57:52,720
opinion the magicians postulate the

1561
00:57:57,510 --> 00:57:55,280
astro you've got like the care they all

1562
00:57:59,589 --> 00:57:57,520
postulate they postulate like a mental

1563
00:58:02,230 --> 00:57:59,599
plane is supposed to be beyond time and

1564
00:58:04,710 --> 00:58:02,240
space and that's where we formulate

1565
00:58:06,549 --> 00:58:04,720
ideas the gods live there according

1566
00:58:09,109 --> 00:58:06,559
traditional theory the gods live beyond

1567
00:58:10,870 --> 00:58:09,119
time and space in some kind mental plane

1568
00:58:12,549 --> 00:58:10,880
and that we can connect to it and then

1569
00:58:13,990 --> 00:58:12,559
what happens when you call an entity it

1570
00:58:16,390 --> 00:58:14,000
comes to the astral plane that's the

1571
00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:16,400
second level of reality and then at that

1572
00:58:20,710 --> 00:58:18,720
point either mass less than the astral

1573
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:20,720
plane or in the physical plane and

1574
00:58:25,030 --> 00:58:22,480
you're manipulating the astral at that

1575
00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:25,040
point so the ante comes to that plane

1576
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:27,280
the chaos magicians have an interesting

1577
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:28,880
theory they've got the same levels but

1578
00:58:32,549 --> 00:58:30,240
they don't believe that it's a mental

1579
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:32,559
plane they believe it's primary reality

1580
00:58:36,789 --> 00:58:35,200
and there are no gods in primary reality

1581
00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:36,799
you could say it's god but it's actually

1582
00:58:40,870 --> 00:58:39,040
the void of chaos gods don't happen

1583
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:40,880
until you get to the astral plane and

1584
00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:43,040
then the way the chaos magicians view it

1585
00:58:47,589 --> 00:58:45,280
those are all egregors which are

1586
00:58:49,510 --> 00:58:47,599
actually self-created entities and some

1587
00:58:51,109 --> 00:58:49,520
of them have been out there a long time

1588
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:51,119
and someone didn't worship the chaos

1589
00:58:55,829 --> 00:58:53,200
magicians who say god himself the god of

1590
00:58:57,589 --> 00:58:55,839
abraham jehovah is actually in egregor

1591
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:57,599
it was created a long time ago and has

1592
00:59:01,750 --> 00:58:59,839
just drawn power from the fact that all

1593
00:59:04,309 --> 00:59:01,760
these churches and all these worshipers

1594
00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:04,319
believe in and so it's actually achieved

1595
00:59:08,069 --> 00:59:06,240
some kind of level of reality now but

1596
00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:08,079
the chaos magicians would say that none

1597
00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:10,640
of these have any absolute reality

1598
00:59:14,870 --> 00:59:12,240
anything on the asteroid does not have

1599
00:59:16,549 --> 00:59:14,880
absolute reality human beings don't have

1600
00:59:18,390 --> 00:59:16,559
absolute reality and our minds don't

1601
00:59:20,710 --> 00:59:18,400
have absolute reality you know so they

1602
00:59:22,069 --> 00:59:20,720
would argue the traditional would argue

1603
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:22,079
that we're actually dealing with things

1604
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:23,760
that live on the astral plane or at

1605
00:59:27,990 --> 00:59:25,680
least come to the astral plane but you

1606
00:59:29,910 --> 00:59:28,000
can't quantify any of that kind of stuff

1607
00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:29,920
i mean you could say that there are

1608
00:59:34,069 --> 00:59:32,160
entities living in the mental level or

1609
00:59:35,910 --> 00:59:34,079
in the primary level or you could say

1610
00:59:37,910 --> 00:59:35,920
there are entities living on the astral

1611
00:59:39,510 --> 00:59:37,920
plane or you could even say their

1612
00:59:41,670 --> 00:59:39,520
manifest in the physical plane which is

1613
00:59:43,589 --> 00:59:41,680
what aliens would be but there's no real

1614
00:59:45,990 --> 00:59:43,599
way to qualify there to say for sure

1615
00:59:48,710 --> 00:59:46,000
what's happening i'm trying to put all

1616
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:48,720
this together we have maybe another

1617
00:59:53,190 --> 00:59:51,680
plane another dimension we've got e.t so

1618
00:59:55,270 --> 00:59:53,200
let's talk about e.t a little bit

1619
00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:55,280
because i think we're kind of losing

1620
01:00:00,230 --> 00:59:58,319
focus on that so are we talking about

1621
01:00:02,390 --> 01:00:00,240
physical entities that live on another

1622
01:00:03,349 --> 01:00:02,400
planet maybe in another star system is

1623
01:00:04,710 --> 01:00:03,359
that what we're talking about when we

1624
01:00:06,390 --> 01:00:04,720
talk about e.t

1625
01:00:08,710 --> 01:00:06,400
it's very possible that's what we're

1626
01:00:10,789 --> 01:00:08,720
talking about no way to verify that

1627
01:00:12,630 --> 01:00:10,799
though okay but i'm trying to find the

1628
01:00:14,230 --> 01:00:12,640
connection of why this is assumed i know

1629
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:14,240
about the ancient astronauts and you

1630
01:00:16,870 --> 01:00:15,119
mentioned

1631
01:00:18,950 --> 01:00:16,880
von danika and all the other people of

1632
01:00:20,789 --> 01:00:18,960
course desmond leslie who wrote the

1633
01:00:23,349 --> 01:00:20,799
introduction to flying saucers have

1634
01:00:25,430 --> 01:00:23,359
landed the george adamski contact book

1635
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:25,440
also wrote about those things so this is

1636
01:00:28,870 --> 01:00:27,040
something we've talked about for a long

1637
01:00:31,910 --> 01:00:28,880
time and we like to think about the

1638
01:00:35,190 --> 01:00:31,920
interactions but part of it is

1639
01:00:37,990 --> 01:00:35,200
would we as arthur clark has said in so

1640
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:38,000
many words view this advanced technology

1641
01:00:42,549 --> 01:00:40,880
as expressions of magic it may just be

1642
01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:42,559
highly advanced beings from other

1643
01:00:47,349 --> 01:00:44,480
planets can do amazing things with their

1644
01:00:50,150 --> 01:00:47,359
technology and we look at them

1645
01:00:51,430 --> 01:00:50,160
in their reality bending ways as

1646
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:51,440
magicians

1647
01:00:56,710 --> 01:00:53,920
well you know how i view it i am not so

1648
01:00:58,150 --> 01:00:56,720
sure that we're actually asking the

1649
01:01:00,470 --> 01:00:58,160
right questions sometimes this is going

1650
01:01:02,470 --> 01:01:00,480
to get a little strange or if we really

1651
01:01:04,710 --> 01:01:02,480
know what the proper questions are i

1652
01:01:06,549 --> 01:01:04,720
know it's it's comforting to kind of

1653
01:01:08,470 --> 01:01:06,559
think that you know there are higher

1654
01:01:10,150 --> 01:01:08,480
beings they have better technology

1655
01:01:11,910 --> 01:01:10,160
they're more cognitively developed and

1656
01:01:13,270 --> 01:01:11,920
that's kind of a nice thought you know

1657
01:01:14,870 --> 01:01:13,280
they're out there because then they can

1658
01:01:16,950 --> 01:01:14,880
help us or they can mentor us or

1659
01:01:18,549 --> 01:01:16,960
something like that but i'm not so sure

1660
01:01:20,630 --> 01:01:18,559
you know when i look at the experiences

1661
01:01:22,710 --> 01:01:20,640
like the magical experiences and the

1662
01:01:24,870 --> 01:01:22,720
weird interpenetrating of reality which

1663
01:01:27,109 --> 01:01:24,880
is very similar to like the way quantum

1664
01:01:29,190 --> 01:01:27,119
physics describes the reality at the

1665
01:01:31,030 --> 01:01:29,200
subatomic level it's very similar to

1666
01:01:32,630 --> 01:01:31,040
that when you do magical experiences and

1667
01:01:35,030 --> 01:01:32,640
a lot of the experiences i've read that

1668
01:01:37,109 --> 01:01:35,040
people have had they've contacted aliens

1669
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:37,119
the experiences are very similar to that

1670
01:01:42,150 --> 01:01:39,760
too there does seem to be like almost a

1671
01:01:44,950 --> 01:01:42,160
magical compound to that as well and i'm

1672
01:01:47,190 --> 01:01:44,960
not sure exactly what's happening here

1673
01:01:49,030 --> 01:01:47,200
but what i think it is is the question

1674
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:49,040
that we should be asking is like it's

1675
01:01:52,950 --> 01:01:51,200
just a change in perception basically

1676
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:52,960
see quantum physics has one really

1677
01:01:58,150 --> 01:01:54,960
interesting rule whatever is not

1678
01:02:00,390 --> 01:01:58,160
forbidden is compulsory and what that

1679
01:02:02,789 --> 01:02:00,400
means at the subatomic level if a

1680
01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:02,799
particle can do one thing that has to do

1681
01:02:06,710 --> 01:02:04,799
everything else they can do

1682
01:02:08,710 --> 01:02:06,720
and the way that i interpret that that

1683
01:02:10,630 --> 01:02:08,720
means there are different dimensions and

1684
01:02:12,710 --> 01:02:10,640
there are different perceptions and what

1685
01:02:14,549 --> 01:02:12,720
we do with magic we train ourselves to

1686
01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:14,559
perceive things differently and then

1687
01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:16,559
when we perceive it differently the way

1688
01:02:21,109 --> 01:02:18,160
we've been conditioned we're being

1689
01:02:22,950 --> 01:02:21,119
exposed to something but our minds

1690
01:02:25,430 --> 01:02:22,960
aren't quite there yet our minds are

1691
01:02:27,510 --> 01:02:25,440
still stuck in the way of viewing things

1692
01:02:29,589 --> 01:02:27,520
that we were at before and then we try

1693
01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:29,599
and fill it up with images to make sense

1694
01:02:33,190 --> 01:02:31,440
of what we're seeing and i think that

1695
01:02:35,430 --> 01:02:33,200
sometimes when we fill up our mind with

1696
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:35,440
what we think we're seeing we sometimes

1697
01:02:40,470 --> 01:02:38,240
see e.t as you call it we sometimes see

1698
01:02:43,430 --> 01:02:40,480
the great old one

1699
01:02:45,030 --> 01:02:43,440
or yog-sothoth or we just see like

1700
01:02:46,950 --> 01:02:45,040
things in our own mind that we know

1701
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:46,960
we've created our own mind so it's

1702
01:02:52,630 --> 01:02:49,680
something that i really can't quantify

1703
01:02:54,230 --> 01:02:52,640
or actually uh explain fully and i don't

1704
01:02:56,230 --> 01:02:54,240
know if that helps you now i don't view

1705
01:02:58,710 --> 01:02:56,240
them as all distinct things so i view

1706
01:03:01,510 --> 01:02:58,720
them as all being kind of co-penetrating

1707
01:03:02,789 --> 01:03:01,520
or coexisting in some kind of fashion

1708
01:03:05,190 --> 01:03:02,799
all right fair enough we're not going to

1709
01:03:07,030 --> 01:03:05,200
try to get you to prove that e.t exists

1710
01:03:09,109 --> 01:03:07,040
we have no idea what form they would

1711
01:03:10,789 --> 01:03:09,119
take and it may also be is we've

1712
01:03:13,510 --> 01:03:10,799
suggested here in the power cast that

1713
01:03:16,390 --> 01:03:13,520
what we see is ufos doesn't represent

1714
01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:16,400
the real phenomenon it's just our

1715
01:03:20,470 --> 01:03:18,799
puny or primitive minds trying to cope

1716
01:03:21,910 --> 01:03:20,480
with something so far beyond our

1717
01:03:24,950 --> 01:03:21,920
understanding

1718
01:03:27,589 --> 01:03:24,960
that we use our cultural conditioning

1719
01:03:29,990 --> 01:03:27,599
to make them appear into something that

1720
01:03:31,589 --> 01:03:30,000
makes sense we've got more to come with

1721
01:03:34,230 --> 01:03:31,599
john stedman

1722
01:03:37,190 --> 01:03:34,240
and the book is called hp lovecraft and

1723
01:03:40,470 --> 01:03:37,200
the black magical tradition and i want

1724
01:03:41,430 --> 01:03:40,480
to know more about lovecraft and how we

1725
01:03:43,670 --> 01:03:41,440
find

1726
01:03:45,750 --> 01:03:43,680
truths in what he says and i also want

1727
01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:45,760
to talk about some of the beings that he

1728
01:03:49,510 --> 01:03:48,000
mentions in his novels

1729
01:03:57,589 --> 01:03:49,520
more to come with gene and chris you're

1730
01:04:01,990 --> 01:03:59,670
attack of the rockoids has been well

1731
01:04:03,589 --> 01:04:02,000
received by critics and readers alike

1732
01:04:04,950 --> 01:04:03,599
it's a thrill a minute story you'll

1733
01:04:06,950 --> 01:04:04,960
never forget

1734
01:04:09,349 --> 01:04:06,960
a former us military intelligence

1735
01:04:11,910 --> 01:04:09,359
officer is haunted by intense dreams

1736
01:04:14,309 --> 01:04:11,920
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1737
01:04:15,349 --> 01:04:14,319
help after a terrible battle in outer

1738
01:04:17,510 --> 01:04:15,359
space

1739
01:04:19,510 --> 01:04:17,520
but the dreams turn out to be true and

1740
01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:19,520
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

1741
01:04:24,630 --> 01:04:22,240
with a woman whose far away planet is

1742
01:04:27,109 --> 01:04:24,640
intent on destroying the earth

1743
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1748
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fanatical enemies that threaten the

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lives of freedom-loving beings

1750
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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1836
01:08:09,270 --> 01:08:05,680
comment or question about the paracast

1837
01:08:12,470 --> 01:08:09,280
send it to news at the paracast.com

1838
01:08:14,309 --> 01:08:12,480
that's news at the paracast.com

1839
01:08:16,789 --> 01:08:14,319
and don't forget to visit our famous

1840
01:08:20,950 --> 01:08:16,799
paracast community forums at

1841
01:08:25,910 --> 01:08:23,430
we have john stedman joining us

1842
01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:25,920
and i want to get more into the works of

1843
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:28,000
hp lovecraft we're having weird

1844
01:08:33,030 --> 01:08:29,520
connection difficulties and i have a

1845
01:08:34,709 --> 01:08:33,040
feeling that the uh sub earth creatures

1846
01:08:37,349 --> 01:08:34,719
are dealing with that's what crap stuff

1847
01:08:39,510 --> 01:08:37,359
yeah yeah that's possibly john stedman

1848
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:39,520
joins gene and chris and the power cast

1849
01:08:42,470 --> 01:08:40,960
and we have questions from our listeners

1850
01:08:44,390 --> 01:08:42,480
very knowledgeable questions we get to

1851
01:08:45,430 --> 01:08:44,400
in a moment i'm right through something

1852
01:08:48,070 --> 01:08:45,440
at you

1853
01:08:50,870 --> 01:08:48,080
and only because he mentioned lovecraft

1854
01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:50,880
that lovecraft had it right and that is

1855
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:53,920
a guy who was popular in the 40s and had

1856
01:08:59,430 --> 01:08:56,080
kind of a cult following in the 50s 60s

1857
01:09:01,349 --> 01:08:59,440
until he died in the 70s richard shaver

1858
01:09:03,669 --> 01:09:01,359
ever hear of him

1859
01:09:04,630 --> 01:09:03,679
no i haven't okay he worked with ray

1860
01:09:06,789 --> 01:09:04,640
palmer

1861
01:09:08,950 --> 01:09:06,799
at amazing stories magazine

1862
01:09:11,510 --> 01:09:08,960
and they had written fictional stories

1863
01:09:14,950 --> 01:09:11,520
about an under earth civilization

1864
01:09:18,229 --> 01:09:14,960
going back to the murian times

1865
01:09:21,590 --> 01:09:18,239
involving two races diros and teros

1866
01:09:23,990 --> 01:09:21,600
deros being the bad guys the evil ones

1867
01:09:26,070 --> 01:09:24,000
and tiros being the good guys

1868
01:09:29,189 --> 01:09:26,080
and shavers said

1869
01:09:30,229 --> 01:09:29,199
that lovecraft in his fiction

1870
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:30,239
was

1871
01:09:34,950 --> 01:09:33,359
using this factual basis

1872
01:09:36,149 --> 01:09:34,960
in some of the creatures he talked about

1873
01:09:37,590 --> 01:09:36,159
what do you think

1874
01:09:38,870 --> 01:09:37,600
well i never heard that but you know

1875
01:09:40,709 --> 01:09:38,880
there are people are always reading

1876
01:09:42,390 --> 01:09:40,719
stuff like this into lovecraft lovecraft

1877
01:09:44,390 --> 01:09:42,400
was an atheist he didn't believe in gods

1878
01:09:46,470 --> 01:09:44,400
because he didn't believe in like

1879
01:09:48,870 --> 01:09:46,480
ultimate good or ultimate evil he

1880
01:09:51,349 --> 01:09:48,880
believed in cosmicism basically what he

1881
01:09:53,829 --> 01:09:51,359
thought was her cosmic indifferentism he

1882
01:09:56,550 --> 01:09:53,839
felt that the universe was indifferent

1883
01:09:58,070 --> 01:09:56,560
to mankind and that there was no purpose

1884
01:10:00,390 --> 01:09:58,080
to life at all and there were no such

1885
01:10:02,229 --> 01:10:00,400
thing as supernatural gods or gods and

1886
01:10:04,709 --> 01:10:02,239
he didn't believe in good or evil now in

1887
01:10:06,790 --> 01:10:04,719
his stories uh he'll have characters

1888
01:10:09,030 --> 01:10:06,800
that'll say something's evil or

1889
01:10:10,950 --> 01:10:09,040
something's blasphemous or horrible so

1890
01:10:13,030 --> 01:10:10,960
he'll use the terminology of good or

1891
01:10:15,510 --> 01:10:13,040
evil but there is a really christian

1892
01:10:17,510 --> 01:10:15,520
dichotomy in lovecraft his best friend

1893
01:10:19,669 --> 01:10:17,520
august durley tried to read it in there

1894
01:10:21,990 --> 01:10:19,679
when he did his own cthulhu mythos

1895
01:10:23,910 --> 01:10:22,000
stories you know but it's just not there

1896
01:10:26,149 --> 01:10:23,920
you know there is no good or evil and

1897
01:10:28,790 --> 01:10:26,159
lovecraft and what you've got to realize

1898
01:10:30,550 --> 01:10:28,800
is that lovecraft is way before his time

1899
01:10:32,709 --> 01:10:30,560
i think he's still totally relevant for

1900
01:10:35,110 --> 01:10:32,719
the 21st century not just because of

1901
01:10:37,510 --> 01:10:35,120
quantum physics but the way he views

1902
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:37,520
reality and in fact he's getting people

1903
01:10:43,270 --> 01:10:39,760
there recognizing that now there's a guy

1904
01:10:45,030 --> 01:10:43,280
in egypt he's a provost in the uh at the

1905
01:10:47,669 --> 01:10:45,040
american university in cairo he's a

1906
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:47,679
philosopher he's a speculative realist

1907
01:10:51,830 --> 01:10:49,840
and he's actually ranking lovecraft up

1908
01:10:53,110 --> 01:10:51,840
there with people like uh martin

1909
01:10:55,669 --> 01:10:53,120
heidegger

1910
01:10:57,590 --> 01:10:55,679
and uh picasso you know who were both

1911
01:10:59,990 --> 01:10:57,600
two great thinkers about

1912
01:11:02,390 --> 01:11:00,000
the philosophy of the nature of being in

1913
01:11:04,790 --> 01:11:02,400
existence and he puts lovecraft up there

1914
01:11:07,590 --> 01:11:04,800
but what lovecraft argues is that

1915
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:07,600
reality is actually incommensurable with

1916
01:11:12,149 --> 01:11:09,600
any attempt that we can represent or

1917
01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:12,159
even conceive of it and uh the human

1918
01:11:14,950 --> 01:11:13,600
century keeps getting away and that's

1919
01:11:16,630 --> 01:11:14,960
where the good of evil comes from

1920
01:11:18,709 --> 01:11:16,640
because of human century you ever know

1921
01:11:21,189 --> 01:11:18,719
it's like hollywood or do a movie like

1922
01:11:23,510 --> 01:11:21,199
the independence day it'll be evil the

1923
01:11:25,590 --> 01:11:23,520
evil aliens and what do they do they

1924
01:11:27,830 --> 01:11:25,600
conceive of evil aliens is things that

1925
01:11:29,350 --> 01:11:27,840
we find repugnant big lizards or

1926
01:11:31,669 --> 01:11:29,360
tentacles or something like that and

1927
01:11:33,430 --> 01:11:31,679
then when they do a nice alien and alien

1928
01:11:35,189 --> 01:11:33,440
coming to help us they always make him

1929
01:11:38,070 --> 01:11:35,199
kind of charming he always looks like a

1930
01:11:40,390 --> 01:11:38,080
human a slightly more educated or

1931
01:11:42,310 --> 01:11:40,400
intelligent human a kind of a mentor

1932
01:11:44,229 --> 01:11:42,320
kind of a figure like in the day the

1933
01:11:45,990 --> 01:11:44,239
earth stood still the original date here

1934
01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:46,000
stood still with michael rennie playing

1935
01:11:50,149 --> 01:11:47,760
that part and you notice that those are

1936
01:11:52,390 --> 01:11:50,159
just human projections put on reality

1937
01:11:54,709 --> 01:11:52,400
but what's happening behind it who can

1938
01:11:56,149 --> 01:11:54,719
say and what lovecraft does and his

1939
01:11:57,669 --> 01:11:56,159
fictions and he does this very good you

1940
01:11:59,590 --> 01:11:57,679
were talking about the great old ones

1941
01:12:02,149 --> 01:11:59,600
right cthulhu for a man have you read

1942
01:12:03,750 --> 01:12:02,159
the call cthulhu i'm sure everybody's

1943
01:12:06,390 --> 01:12:03,760
read that one yes

1944
01:12:08,630 --> 01:12:06,400
i have read the call of cthulhu

1945
01:12:10,790 --> 01:12:08,640
okay think about that story for a minute

1946
01:12:13,430 --> 01:12:10,800
like in a popular mind when you're

1947
01:12:15,669 --> 01:12:13,440
talking about gaming people or when

1948
01:12:17,910 --> 01:12:15,679
they're taught making movies about or

1949
01:12:19,830 --> 01:12:17,920
whatever it's a big monster you know

1950
01:12:22,470 --> 01:12:19,840
it's a big greenish kind of monster with

1951
01:12:24,709 --> 01:12:22,480
dragon wings and big claws and his face

1952
01:12:26,950 --> 01:12:24,719
a massive tentacles it's a monster in

1953
01:12:29,510 --> 01:12:26,960
other words but that's human-centric if

1954
01:12:31,350 --> 01:12:29,520
you actually look at lovecraft's story

1955
01:12:34,870 --> 01:12:31,360
he actually the way that he presents

1956
01:12:37,430 --> 01:12:34,880
cthulhu is very interesting you know

1957
01:12:39,350 --> 01:12:37,440
like a couple that some sailors find

1958
01:12:40,870 --> 01:12:39,360
this island that comes up it's uh

1959
01:12:42,630 --> 01:12:40,880
apparently the island of rhylith or

1960
01:12:45,030 --> 01:12:42,640
something it's up for a little bit and

1961
01:12:46,709 --> 01:12:45,040
cthulhu comes out until light day now

1962
01:12:49,030 --> 01:12:46,719
some of those sailors have kind of

1963
01:12:51,430 --> 01:12:49,040
chanced upon this some of them do see a

1964
01:12:54,070 --> 01:12:51,440
big monster big dragon like monster but

1965
01:12:56,390 --> 01:12:54,080
there's one sailor that doesn't see

1966
01:12:57,990 --> 01:12:56,400
anything he's not sure what he's seeing

1967
01:13:00,390 --> 01:12:58,000
and the only way that he can describe

1968
01:13:02,790 --> 01:13:00,400
what he's seen he says a mountain walked

1969
01:13:05,030 --> 01:13:02,800
or stumbled a mountain walked or

1970
01:13:07,189 --> 01:13:05,040
stumbled that's how he sees cthulhu he

1971
01:13:09,189 --> 01:13:07,199
doesn't see him a big monster at all he

1972
01:13:11,030 --> 01:13:09,199
sees something he's trying to grasp and

1973
01:13:13,430 --> 01:13:11,040
all he can think of his mouth another

1974
01:13:18,310 --> 01:13:13,440
person actually ends up dying and he

1975
01:13:20,550 --> 01:13:18,320
sees cthulhu as this as an obtuse angle

1976
01:13:23,110 --> 01:13:20,560
pretend to be an acute angle or a mass

1977
01:13:25,350 --> 01:13:23,120
grain as an acute angle so he yes he

1978
01:13:26,310 --> 01:13:25,360
sees it as a geometrical experience of

1979
01:13:29,430 --> 01:13:26,320
some kind

1980
01:13:31,830 --> 01:13:29,440
of geometrical experience yes a large

1981
01:13:33,910 --> 01:13:31,840
one it's actually like uh obtuse angle

1982
01:13:36,070 --> 01:13:33,920
pretending to be obtuse and it's like a

1983
01:13:37,990 --> 01:13:36,080
big vast thing and gets sucked into it

1984
01:13:40,229 --> 01:13:38,000
whatever it is but what lovecraft is

1985
01:13:42,070 --> 01:13:40,239
getting at here is the human centric the

1986
01:13:44,470 --> 01:13:42,080
way we're conditioned to see things

1987
01:13:46,470 --> 01:13:44,480
interferes with reality and this graham

1988
01:13:48,149 --> 01:13:46,480
harmon guy who i was talking about who

1989
01:13:49,910 --> 01:13:48,159
wrote a book called weird realism

1990
01:13:52,149 --> 01:13:49,920
lovecraftian philosophy very good book

1991
01:13:54,550 --> 01:13:52,159
too he argues that lovecraft throughout

1992
01:13:56,790 --> 01:13:54,560
his fictions is actually using different

1993
01:13:58,310 --> 01:13:56,800
techniques to express the weirdness of

1994
01:14:00,630 --> 01:13:58,320
reality that we can't get in touch with

1995
01:14:03,430 --> 01:14:00,640
he used like either the elusive method

1996
01:14:05,669 --> 01:14:03,440
like he does in the cthulhu or he uses

1997
01:14:08,070 --> 01:14:05,679
something called the horizontal

1998
01:14:10,470 --> 01:14:08,080
method which is also a cubist method

1999
01:14:12,630 --> 01:14:10,480
where he just piles on a whole bunch of

2000
01:14:14,630 --> 01:14:12,640
things where the mind just can't put

2001
01:14:16,470 --> 01:14:14,640
them all together in a kind it's like

2002
01:14:18,229 --> 01:14:16,480
information overload to the mind to

2003
01:14:20,229 --> 01:14:18,239
express what they're seeing but see

2004
01:14:23,110 --> 01:14:20,239
lovecraft is doing that now if you read

2005
01:14:25,750 --> 01:14:23,120
just like in the 1930s right if you read

2006
01:14:28,070 --> 01:14:25,760
cthulhu mythos fictions today they go

2007
01:14:30,149 --> 01:14:28,080
right back to the same nonsense that

2008
01:14:32,149 --> 01:14:30,159
they've always been doing the great old

2009
01:14:34,310 --> 01:14:32,159
ones are monsters and they're evil

2010
01:14:36,070 --> 01:14:34,320
they're trying to destroy humanity you

2011
01:14:37,910 --> 01:14:36,080
know so they can never get away from

2012
01:14:40,390 --> 01:14:37,920
that as long as we're human we're going

2013
01:14:41,830 --> 01:14:40,400
to have human-centric monsters and it

2014
01:14:43,189 --> 01:14:41,840
gets even worse

2015
01:14:45,270 --> 01:14:43,199
vampires

2016
01:14:47,270 --> 01:14:45,280
zombies i mean that's even worse donald

2017
01:14:49,430 --> 01:14:47,280
trump i mean

2018
01:14:51,990 --> 01:14:49,440
we're making monsters out of all sorts

2019
01:14:53,110 --> 01:14:52,000
of things in this day and age

2020
01:14:54,950 --> 01:14:53,120
we are

2021
01:14:56,709 --> 01:14:54,960
projections those are all projections

2022
01:14:59,030 --> 01:14:56,719
like you ever know that people project

2023
01:15:00,550 --> 01:14:59,040
things on to this guy russia they

2024
01:15:02,950 --> 01:15:00,560
project russia there's some kind of

2025
01:15:04,149 --> 01:15:02,960
russian involvement or he's doing this

2026
01:15:05,750 --> 01:15:04,159
or he's doing that and they're

2027
01:15:09,270 --> 01:15:05,760
projecting it out to him but the man

2028
01:15:10,950 --> 01:15:09,280
himself is that really him you know so

2029
01:15:12,149 --> 01:15:10,960
we have a tendency to do that sort of

2030
01:15:13,750 --> 01:15:12,159
thing and the thing that i like about

2031
01:15:15,910 --> 01:15:13,760
lovecraft if you read his fictions

2032
01:15:19,030 --> 01:15:15,920
carefully and you study him you realize

2033
01:15:20,470 --> 01:15:19,040
he breaks down those human-centric

2034
01:15:22,310 --> 01:15:20,480
convictions that we have and that's what

2035
01:15:23,990 --> 01:15:22,320
magic does too it teaches us to look at

2036
01:15:25,189 --> 01:15:24,000
things differently to perceive things

2037
01:15:27,510 --> 01:15:25,199
differently

2038
01:15:28,630 --> 01:15:27,520
well he he definitely was was plugged in

2039
01:15:30,149 --> 01:15:28,640
i think

2040
01:15:32,470 --> 01:15:30,159
to a

2041
01:15:34,630 --> 01:15:32,480
some form of

2042
01:15:36,950 --> 01:15:34,640
you know i hate to use the term like the

2043
01:15:38,470 --> 01:15:36,960
akashic records or something but

2044
01:15:40,790 --> 01:15:38,480
when you look at

2045
01:15:42,709 --> 01:15:40,800
you know a late 20s story a short story

2046
01:15:44,390 --> 01:15:42,719
like the mountains of madness

2047
01:15:46,390 --> 01:15:44,400
and then look at what what's been going

2048
01:15:48,470 --> 01:15:46,400
on you know currently

2049
01:15:50,870 --> 01:15:48,480
down in antarctica and some of the

2050
01:15:53,350 --> 01:15:50,880
conspiracy theories that are coming out

2051
01:15:56,070 --> 01:15:53,360
about why um

2052
01:15:57,750 --> 01:15:56,080
you know pivotal figures uh in culture

2053
01:15:59,110 --> 01:15:57,760
or in the last few years have been

2054
01:16:02,070 --> 01:15:59,120
shuttled down there and shuttled back

2055
01:16:05,270 --> 01:16:02,080
buzz aldrin had a heart attack evidently

2056
01:16:07,110 --> 01:16:05,280
on his trip and the russians had to uh

2057
01:16:08,310 --> 01:16:07,120
had to uh you know do a flight for life

2058
01:16:09,990 --> 01:16:08,320
thing to get him out of there after a

2059
01:16:12,310 --> 01:16:10,000
heart attack the head of the russian

2060
01:16:15,189 --> 01:16:12,320
orthodox church has been down there

2061
01:16:16,310 --> 01:16:15,199
and all this kind of stems back to that

2062
01:16:19,270 --> 01:16:16,320
very

2063
01:16:20,950 --> 01:16:19,280
my favorite lovecraft short story uh the

2064
01:16:23,669 --> 01:16:20,960
mountains of madness which all takes

2065
01:16:26,790 --> 01:16:23,679
place right in that same area you know

2066
01:16:27,910 --> 01:16:26,800
just uh adjacent to uh the south pole

2067
01:16:31,430 --> 01:16:27,920
so

2068
01:16:34,310 --> 01:16:31,440
let's talk about his ability to to kind

2069
01:16:36,310 --> 01:16:34,320
of see through the glass darkly into the

2070
01:16:38,550 --> 01:16:36,320
future let's do that let's look at the

2071
01:16:48,310 --> 01:16:38,560
glass darkly in our next segment with

2072
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:53,030
thank you for listening to gcn

2073
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visit

2074
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2101
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2168
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2174
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2175
01:21:10,709 --> 01:21:08,709
this is jacques valley you're listening

2176
01:21:24,070 --> 01:21:10,719
to the paracast

2177
01:21:27,189 --> 01:21:25,590
with gene and chris in the power cast

2178
01:21:30,070 --> 01:21:27,199
we're exploring

2179
01:21:33,270 --> 01:21:30,080
all the fascinating things about

2180
01:21:35,030 --> 01:21:33,280
hp lovecraft and his insights chris

2181
01:21:37,430 --> 01:21:35,040
you were leading john to something in

2182
01:21:41,110 --> 01:21:37,440
the previous segment well yeah i want to

2183
01:21:43,590 --> 01:21:41,120
talk about him as a visionary as someone

2184
01:21:45,990 --> 01:21:43,600
that um was able to tap into the

2185
01:21:48,070 --> 01:21:46,000
zeitgeist decades before

2186
01:21:51,270 --> 01:21:48,080
we even knew that that you know we had

2187
01:21:54,709 --> 01:21:51,280
these dark kind of

2188
01:21:56,629 --> 01:21:54,719
areas in our our sort of horror closet

2189
01:21:58,390 --> 01:21:56,639
yeah i'm not going to dispute anything

2190
01:22:00,950 --> 01:21:58,400
you say okay because the thing great

2191
01:22:02,790 --> 01:22:00,960
about lovecraft he's a major figure he's

2192
01:22:04,870 --> 01:22:02,800
a major figure not only is a fantasy

2193
01:22:07,110 --> 01:22:04,880
writer and as a literary figure most

2194
01:22:09,350 --> 01:22:07,120
campuses accept him as like the major

2195
01:22:11,110 --> 01:22:09,360
20th century writer eve some people put

2196
01:22:13,189 --> 01:22:11,120
him above edgar allan poe i certainly do

2197
01:22:15,510 --> 01:22:13,199
that but he's much more than a major

2198
01:22:17,110 --> 01:22:15,520
figure and he's like

2199
01:22:18,790 --> 01:22:17,120
it's a vast

2200
01:22:20,390 --> 01:22:18,800
i don't know what you want to call but

2201
01:22:22,310 --> 01:22:20,400
he can take any amount of different

2202
01:22:24,470 --> 01:22:22,320
interpretations and come to him all and

2203
01:22:26,390 --> 01:22:24,480
then he rises still and he's still

2204
01:22:28,310 --> 01:22:26,400
lovecraft a lot of people make these

2205
01:22:30,470 --> 01:22:28,320
kinds of interpretations like his friend

2206
01:22:33,350 --> 01:22:30,480
durwith was arguing that it's like a

2207
01:22:35,430 --> 01:22:33,360
classy good versus evil the elder gods

2208
01:22:37,189 --> 01:22:35,440
were good you know and then the great

2209
01:22:38,870 --> 01:22:37,199
old ones are evil and it was the

2210
01:22:40,229 --> 01:22:38,880
conflict between those two and now

2211
01:22:42,550 --> 01:22:40,239
you're talking about these ancient

2212
01:22:44,550 --> 01:22:42,560
things that they're discovering i uh

2213
01:22:46,310 --> 01:22:44,560
reserve judgment where these are true or

2214
01:22:49,110 --> 01:22:46,320
not there are some occultists that argue

2215
01:22:51,350 --> 01:22:49,120
the lovecraft in fact was dreaming true

2216
01:22:53,350 --> 01:22:51,360
and they was actually in touch with like

2217
01:22:55,110 --> 01:22:53,360
the future in the past and he actually

2218
01:22:57,270 --> 01:22:55,120
did get in contact with real

2219
01:22:59,189 --> 01:22:57,280
extraterrestrial entities he actually

2220
01:23:01,030 --> 01:22:59,199
could foretell the future and so they

2221
01:23:04,390 --> 01:23:01,040
place him as kind of like an unconscious

2222
01:23:05,910 --> 01:23:04,400
occultist dreaming true donald tyson the

2223
01:23:07,350 --> 01:23:05,920
guy that wrote his own version of the

2224
01:23:09,430 --> 01:23:07,360
necronomicon and he's written the

2225
01:23:11,030 --> 01:23:09,440
grimoire of the necronomicon argues that

2226
01:23:13,189 --> 01:23:11,040
lovecraft was actually a practicing

2227
01:23:15,350 --> 01:23:13,199
magician but it was a kind of a dreaming

2228
01:23:16,950 --> 01:23:15,360
unconscious form of magic and i'm

2229
01:23:19,030 --> 01:23:16,960
perfectly willing if somebody wants to

2230
01:23:21,590 --> 01:23:19,040
make the argument he can't prove that of

2231
01:23:24,149 --> 01:23:21,600
course guy can't disprove it and so if a

2232
01:23:26,470 --> 01:23:24,159
person wants to view it that way then by

2233
01:23:27,750 --> 01:23:26,480
all means that's good you know what what

2234
01:23:30,229 --> 01:23:27,760
it means is that we're going to keep

2235
01:23:32,149 --> 01:23:30,239
talking about lovecraft so what i see in

2236
01:23:33,669 --> 01:23:32,159
the future is that science and magic are

2237
01:23:35,430 --> 01:23:33,679
going to have to come together it used

2238
01:23:37,510 --> 01:23:35,440
to be the same thing in the old days and

2239
01:23:39,110 --> 01:23:37,520
then they kind of broke apart during the

2240
01:23:42,310 --> 01:23:39,120
enlightenment era but they're gonna have

2241
01:23:44,550 --> 01:23:42,320
to come together because quantum physics

2242
01:23:46,470 --> 01:23:44,560
definitions of the universe and of

2243
01:23:49,669 --> 01:23:46,480
reality are getting more and more

2244
01:23:52,070 --> 01:23:49,679
magical the more decades that go by and

2245
01:23:53,830 --> 01:23:52,080
someday those quantum physicists are

2246
01:23:56,390 --> 01:23:53,840
going to need some way to quantify their

2247
01:23:58,390 --> 01:23:56,400
speculations they can't do it right now

2248
01:24:00,070 --> 01:23:58,400
which is why einstein got off that

2249
01:24:02,070 --> 01:24:00,080
bandwagon because he didn't like

2250
01:24:03,669 --> 01:24:02,080
speculating beyond things that we could

2251
01:24:06,149 --> 01:24:03,679
prove and that's where quantum physics

2252
01:24:07,590 --> 01:24:06,159
is gone now it's all speculation someday

2253
01:24:10,709 --> 01:24:07,600
we're gonna have to try and find a way

2254
01:24:12,790 --> 01:24:10,719
to quantify those and so far i think the

2255
01:24:16,310 --> 01:24:12,800
only way we can actually quantify the

2256
01:24:18,229 --> 01:24:16,320
close we can come to is utilizing magic

2257
01:24:19,430 --> 01:24:18,239
even though we can't explain why it does

2258
01:24:21,270 --> 01:24:19,440
what it does

2259
01:24:23,510 --> 01:24:21,280
it will allow us to get in touch with

2260
01:24:25,830 --> 01:24:23,520
these kinds of interdimensional things

2261
01:24:27,830 --> 01:24:25,840
and so sometimes magic and science are

2262
01:24:29,430 --> 01:24:27,840
going to have to link up again and have

2263
01:24:31,430 --> 01:24:29,440
a relationship and i think we're moving

2264
01:24:32,870 --> 01:24:31,440
in that direction slowly isn't it fair

2265
01:24:34,229 --> 01:24:32,880
to say though if we're going to start

2266
01:24:37,110 --> 01:24:34,239
dropping in

2267
01:24:39,430 --> 01:24:37,120
quantum physics and maybe magic is just

2268
01:24:41,189 --> 01:24:39,440
another way of looking at technology and

2269
01:24:42,830 --> 01:24:41,199
maybe even a more advanced version

2270
01:24:46,310 --> 01:24:42,840
because we don't need all the

2271
01:24:48,629 --> 01:24:46,320
technological stuff we can use spells

2272
01:24:49,990 --> 01:24:48,639
gadgetry and we're moving in those

2273
01:24:52,229 --> 01:24:50,000
directions but we're doing it

2274
01:24:54,709 --> 01:24:52,239
electronically but we're still a great

2275
01:24:56,310 --> 01:24:54,719
deal away from it and the problem is of

2276
01:24:58,310 --> 01:24:56,320
course that we can create virtual

2277
01:25:00,790 --> 01:24:58,320
environments but we can't master

2278
01:25:03,110 --> 01:25:00,800
artificial intelligence yet and that's

2279
01:25:05,510 --> 01:25:03,120
the big sticking point there like we can

2280
01:25:07,430 --> 01:25:05,520
create virtual entities and we could

2281
01:25:09,030 --> 01:25:07,440
argue those virtual entities are similar

2282
01:25:11,189 --> 01:25:09,040
to the kind of magical entities that we

2283
01:25:13,189 --> 01:25:11,199
create but there's one big difference

2284
01:25:16,229 --> 01:25:13,199
the things that they create virtually

2285
01:25:18,390 --> 01:25:16,239
are not artificially intelligent and the

2286
01:25:19,750 --> 01:25:18,400
great old ones are the gods and gazes

2287
01:25:21,910 --> 01:25:19,760
and magic deals

2288
01:25:24,470 --> 01:25:21,920
are intelligent are artificially

2289
01:25:27,030 --> 01:25:24,480
intelligent we don't know why they are

2290
01:25:29,750 --> 01:25:27,040
but they are and so there can be a

2291
01:25:31,990 --> 01:25:29,760
genuine information exchange between

2292
01:25:33,590 --> 01:25:32,000
magical entities and human beings but

2293
01:25:36,229 --> 01:25:33,600
there can't be the same thing with the

2294
01:25:37,669 --> 01:25:36,239
virtual and we're not really there yet i

2295
01:25:39,590 --> 01:25:37,679
don't know how long it's going to take

2296
01:25:41,030 --> 01:25:39,600
us to get there but once when we get

2297
01:25:44,070 --> 01:25:41,040
there we're still going to have to find

2298
01:25:45,830 --> 01:25:44,080
ways to quantify that so uh technology's

2299
01:25:48,470 --> 01:25:45,840
running way behind all that's running

2300
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:48,480
way behind the speculation all right you

2301
01:25:51,510 --> 01:25:49,920
never know when i'm going to stop do you

2302
01:25:53,430 --> 01:25:51,520
see i'm a college teacher i can sit up

2303
01:25:55,590 --> 01:25:53,440
there and lecture for hours and i've got

2304
01:25:57,430 --> 01:25:55,600
a captive audience and the students

2305
01:25:59,350 --> 01:25:57,440
can't really do anything until the class

2306
01:26:01,270 --> 01:25:59,360
is over you know so i have a tendency to

2307
01:26:02,950 --> 01:26:01,280
ramble on and talk forever and ever and

2308
01:26:05,189 --> 01:26:02,960
i apologize for that well i'll tell you

2309
01:26:06,390 --> 01:26:05,199
something here i run the board and i

2310
01:26:07,830 --> 01:26:06,400
have the power

2311
01:26:10,070 --> 01:26:07,840
and i'll interrupt you when it's

2312
01:26:11,590 --> 01:26:10,080
necessary yes i have the power unless

2313
01:26:12,470 --> 01:26:11,600
you're going to use some kind of magical

2314
01:26:15,110 --> 01:26:12,480
spell

2315
01:26:17,030 --> 01:26:15,120
that could be invoked through skype yeah

2316
01:26:18,950 --> 01:26:17,040
and plus you can actually edit too so

2317
01:26:20,550 --> 01:26:18,960
that's even more powerful

2318
01:26:23,669 --> 01:26:20,560
yes but you know i should tell the truth

2319
01:26:26,229 --> 01:26:23,679
to our listeners they wonder what is it

2320
01:26:28,229 --> 01:26:26,239
that i do to edit this show

2321
01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:28,239
and the fact of the matter is

2322
01:26:32,310 --> 01:26:30,480
it's very little i give it a shave and a

2323
01:26:34,709 --> 01:26:32,320
haircut i clean it up a little bit

2324
01:26:37,350 --> 01:26:34,719
unless someone says one of the

2325
01:26:38,870 --> 01:26:37,360
george carlin words then it gets to be

2326
01:26:40,550 --> 01:26:38,880
more involved i want to ask you just

2327
01:26:42,229 --> 01:26:40,560
parenthetically and i want to get also

2328
01:26:43,189 --> 01:26:42,239
into listener questions that chris will

2329
01:26:46,070 --> 01:26:43,199
offer you

2330
01:26:47,189 --> 01:26:46,080
that is how do your

2331
01:26:49,270 --> 01:26:47,199
students

2332
01:26:51,590 --> 01:26:49,280
react to all this are they aware of it

2333
01:26:53,110 --> 01:26:51,600
because you're an english teacher yeah i

2334
01:26:55,110 --> 01:26:53,120
actually teach writing i teach them how

2335
01:26:56,790 --> 01:26:55,120
to write and there's a very clear line

2336
01:26:58,950 --> 01:26:56,800
there when i go in there it's very

2337
01:27:00,149 --> 01:26:58,960
important for them to see these are

2338
01:27:02,149 --> 01:27:00,159
students getting ready to go to the

2339
01:27:04,550 --> 01:27:02,159
undergraduate university and so i teach

2340
01:27:06,550 --> 01:27:04,560
them how to write analytical expository

2341
01:27:09,189 --> 01:27:06,560
essays or argumentative essays which is

2342
01:27:12,310 --> 01:27:09,199
a more aggressive form of an analytical

2343
01:27:13,750 --> 01:27:12,320
exposure i concentrate on that entirely

2344
01:27:15,510 --> 01:27:13,760
because that's what i'm paid to do and

2345
01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:15,520
that's the skill they need and i would

2346
01:27:20,229 --> 01:27:17,520
argue it's the number one skill they

2347
01:27:21,830 --> 01:27:20,239
need or to succeed in college and so i

2348
01:27:24,310 --> 01:27:21,840
teach that but some of them have

2349
01:27:25,990 --> 01:27:24,320
probably read my book and i'll speculate

2350
01:27:27,990 --> 01:27:26,000
and have some fun in the classroom tell

2351
01:27:29,990 --> 01:27:28,000
my little jokes i have a very macabre

2352
01:27:32,629 --> 01:27:30,000
sense of humor i'll tell my little jokes

2353
01:27:34,070 --> 01:27:32,639
but i concentrate basically on teaching

2354
01:27:36,310 --> 01:27:34,080
them why i'm supposed to teach them how

2355
01:27:37,990 --> 01:27:36,320
to write analytical expository essay i

2356
01:27:39,990 --> 01:27:38,000
am proposing a class though and i'm

2357
01:27:41,669 --> 01:27:40,000
going to talk to the dean of instruction

2358
01:27:43,830 --> 01:27:41,679
about that actually where i want to

2359
01:27:46,070 --> 01:27:43,840
teach a class called speculative science

2360
01:27:47,669 --> 01:27:46,080
fiction fantasy and horror in the 21st

2361
01:27:49,669 --> 01:27:47,679
century and then i'm going to have a

2362
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:49,679
segment on lovecraft's works and i

2363
01:27:52,470 --> 01:27:50,960
picked some other science fiction

2364
01:27:55,110 --> 01:27:52,480
writers like william gibson you guys

2365
01:27:57,669 --> 01:27:55,120
know william gibson yeah neuromancer he

2366
01:27:58,950 --> 01:27:57,679
wrote the novel neuromancer but he's

2367
01:28:00,950 --> 01:27:58,960
written several too but i'm going to be

2368
01:28:02,709 --> 01:28:00,960
talking uh the class if they approve

2369
01:28:05,270 --> 01:28:02,719
this class it'll be a more speculative

2370
01:28:06,709 --> 01:28:05,280
class but my teaching is not speculative

2371
01:28:08,390 --> 01:28:06,719
i don't we don't deal with any of this

2372
01:28:10,310 --> 01:28:08,400
kind of stuff i'm not being paid to do

2373
01:28:12,390 --> 01:28:10,320
that sort of thing i keep the planes

2374
01:28:13,910 --> 01:28:12,400
very distinct alistair crowley always

2375
01:28:15,669 --> 01:28:13,920
said you've got to make sure your planes

2376
01:28:17,830 --> 01:28:15,679
are distinct and you have to do that so

2377
01:28:19,910 --> 01:28:17,840
you don't go crazy if you the planes

2378
01:28:21,030 --> 01:28:19,920
aren't distinct then suddenly the great

2379
01:28:22,390 --> 01:28:21,040
old ones will appear to you in the

2380
01:28:23,430 --> 01:28:22,400
middle of the afternoon at one o'clock

2381
01:28:25,110 --> 01:28:23,440
while you're teaching you can't have

2382
01:28:26,310 --> 01:28:25,120
that happen so you gotta keep the

2383
01:28:28,550 --> 01:28:26,320
barriers between the planes

2384
01:28:30,070 --> 01:28:28,560
psychological berries let me ask you

2385
01:28:31,110 --> 01:28:30,080
here since you mentioned the fact that

2386
01:28:32,629 --> 01:28:31,120
you're

2387
01:28:34,149 --> 01:28:32,639
bringing this up to some degree with

2388
01:28:37,430 --> 01:28:34,159
your students have you ever run into

2389
01:28:41,030 --> 01:28:37,440
anything weird or unusual as a result

2390
01:28:43,110 --> 01:28:41,040
in the classrooms yes uh no not really

2391
01:28:45,350 --> 01:28:43,120
i've encountered some really bad

2392
01:28:47,270 --> 01:28:45,360
pathetically written essays and i've

2393
01:28:49,030 --> 01:28:47,280
encountered some really pathetically

2394
01:28:51,590 --> 01:28:49,040
good written essays you know but that's

2395
01:28:52,950 --> 01:28:51,600
the level that now why i teach so we

2396
01:28:54,629 --> 01:28:52,960
don't deal with any of this content i've

2397
01:28:56,629 --> 01:28:54,639
never had any kind of

2398
01:28:59,189 --> 01:28:56,639
odd experience happen in the classroom

2399
01:29:01,270 --> 01:28:59,199
at all if that's what you're saying but

2400
01:29:03,350 --> 01:29:01,280
it's uh you have to those are controlled

2401
01:29:06,070 --> 01:29:03,360
you know i mean you you i don't expect

2402
01:29:07,510 --> 01:29:06,080
them to come unless i uh set up or call

2403
01:29:09,669 --> 01:29:07,520
them i don't expect things to come in

2404
01:29:11,590 --> 01:29:09,679
the class if i if they do if things

2405
01:29:13,669 --> 01:29:11,600
start happening then i need to check

2406
01:29:15,510 --> 01:29:13,679
myself into a mental institution you

2407
01:29:17,830 --> 01:29:15,520
know so i i want to keep those planes

2408
01:29:20,390 --> 01:29:17,840
distinct

2409
01:29:22,229 --> 01:29:20,400
well i can see that yeah

2410
01:29:24,390 --> 01:29:22,239
that was a good idea

2411
01:29:26,950 --> 01:29:24,400
i need a paycheck idea paycheck they

2412
01:29:28,629 --> 01:29:26,960
can't have me like i certainly can't be

2413
01:29:30,550 --> 01:29:28,639
evoking elder gods or anything in the

2414
01:29:32,390 --> 01:29:30,560
classroom i mean that might actually get

2415
01:29:34,070 --> 01:29:32,400
kind of messy because some of those

2416
01:29:35,750 --> 01:29:34,080
people are perceived as monsters and if

2417
01:29:37,430 --> 01:29:35,760
they perceive something it's a monster

2418
01:29:39,430 --> 01:29:37,440
it's going to act like a monster which

2419
01:29:41,270 --> 01:29:39,440
means i'll probably be torn apart i

2420
01:29:44,790 --> 01:29:41,280
can't have the reputation of people to

2421
01:29:45,990 --> 01:29:44,800
take my class risking being torn apart

2422
01:29:48,310 --> 01:29:46,000
they would probably put me on

2423
01:29:50,629 --> 01:29:48,320
administrative leave or just fire me out

2424
01:29:52,550 --> 01:29:50,639
right i like the paycheck okay

2425
01:29:55,030 --> 01:29:52,560
especially co-eds i mean they're they're

2426
01:29:57,350 --> 01:29:55,040
so young and cute and innocent we don't

2427
01:29:58,470 --> 01:29:57,360
need they are cute we don't know i don't

2428
01:30:01,110 --> 01:29:58,480
mind

2429
01:30:03,030 --> 01:30:01,120
if it's all jaded professors like myself

2430
01:30:05,350 --> 01:30:03,040
you know sure we've lived for quite a

2431
01:30:07,189 --> 01:30:05,360
number of years so yeah let's see what's

2432
01:30:08,709 --> 01:30:07,199
like being torn apart by an older god

2433
01:30:11,350 --> 01:30:08,719
but i'm not going to have that happen to

2434
01:30:12,870 --> 01:30:11,360
20 year old if i can avoid it well the

2435
01:30:14,870 --> 01:30:12,880
other thing here i want to ask you we

2436
01:30:16,629 --> 01:30:14,880
can go on to the next segment is this

2437
01:30:18,310 --> 01:30:16,639
are we viewing

2438
01:30:21,030 --> 01:30:18,320
these creatures

2439
01:30:22,470 --> 01:30:21,040
with our expectations that they're ugly

2440
01:30:24,790 --> 01:30:22,480
and gross

2441
01:30:26,870 --> 01:30:24,800
not as to what they appear to be is that

2442
01:30:29,110 --> 01:30:26,880
part of the picture there we'll find out

2443
01:30:30,629 --> 01:30:29,120
that and i think chris will get some of

2444
01:30:34,149 --> 01:30:30,639
your questions listeners in our next

2445
01:30:37,669 --> 01:30:34,159
segment with john stedman talking about

2446
01:30:40,070 --> 01:30:37,679
hp lovecraft and magic and all that

2447
01:30:49,030 --> 01:30:40,080
stuff with gene and chris you're in the

2448
01:30:53,149 --> 01:30:52,229
thank you for listening to gcn

2449
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2538
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obama's most loyal aides still hold

2539
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office and they want to stop president

2540
01:34:37,830 --> 01:34:36,000
trump deep state was first revealed in

2541
01:34:40,229 --> 01:34:37,840
the runaway new york times bestseller

2542
01:34:42,870 --> 01:34:40,239
big agenda david horowitz's big agenda

2543
01:34:45,990 --> 01:34:42,880
exposes obama's government in exile and

2544
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his shocking plan newsmax lou dobbs and

2545
01:34:50,470 --> 01:34:48,639
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2546
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01:35:08,229 --> 01:35:05,669
[Music]

2550
01:35:10,229 --> 01:35:08,239
this is jerome clark author of the ufo

2551
01:35:16,470 --> 01:35:10,239
encyclopedia in other books you're

2552
01:35:21,430 --> 01:35:18,149
chris sounds like he's trying to cast a

2553
01:35:22,390 --> 01:35:21,440
spell he's gonna spit it out one day and

2554
01:35:24,470 --> 01:35:22,400
you know

2555
01:35:28,149 --> 01:35:24,480
it's just gonna all fall apart

2556
01:35:31,590 --> 01:35:28,159
so what do you think john stedman these

2557
01:35:34,229 --> 01:35:31,600
ugly creatures gross

2558
01:35:36,870 --> 01:35:34,239
horrifying is that the way they are or

2559
01:35:38,629 --> 01:35:36,880
is that what we perceive that we kind of

2560
01:35:40,950 --> 01:35:38,639
infer this from who and what they're

2561
01:35:43,350 --> 01:35:40,960
supposed to be well i think that we just

2562
01:35:44,790 --> 01:35:43,360
whatever we see we bring it with us you

2563
01:35:46,629 --> 01:35:44,800
know we're conditioned now a lot of

2564
01:35:48,550 --> 01:35:46,639
times people that do magical rituals

2565
01:35:50,550 --> 01:35:48,560
based on the great old ones they already

2566
01:35:52,229 --> 01:35:50,560
have preconceptions and that was the

2567
01:35:53,830 --> 01:35:52,239
danger that i talked about before when i

2568
01:35:54,709 --> 01:35:53,840
was in middle school you know i had

2569
01:35:56,790 --> 01:35:54,719
called up the spirit of bart's

2570
01:35:58,629 --> 01:35:56,800
barnstable i had a pretty good idea what

2571
01:36:00,070 --> 01:35:58,639
bart's about would look like in fact

2572
01:36:01,830 --> 01:36:00,080
they have a golden dawn ritual for

2573
01:36:04,790 --> 01:36:01,840
calling up bart's about so i'd read all

2574
01:36:06,950 --> 01:36:04,800
the document i'd read crowley 777 which

2575
01:36:08,310 --> 01:36:06,960
has got all the correspondences it's how

2576
01:36:09,990 --> 01:36:08,320
to decorate your temple what kind of

2577
01:36:12,310 --> 01:36:10,000
weapons to use what kind of incense to

2578
01:36:14,149 --> 01:36:12,320
burn what mars should be doing up in the

2579
01:36:16,149 --> 01:36:14,159
heavens at that time what the best hour

2580
01:36:18,070 --> 01:36:16,159
for doing so you read all that stuff and

2581
01:36:20,870 --> 01:36:18,080
you got expectations and like i said

2582
01:36:23,350 --> 01:36:20,880
those rituals justified my expectations

2583
01:36:25,830 --> 01:36:23,360
but i'm not really engaged in anything

2584
01:36:28,149 --> 01:36:25,840
am i like if you talk to somebody that

2585
01:36:29,990 --> 01:36:28,159
is justifying your expectations you're

2586
01:36:32,470 --> 01:36:30,000
talking to yourself basically you're not

2587
01:36:34,070 --> 01:36:32,480
learning anything right and so what i

2588
01:36:35,669 --> 01:36:34,080
think is a lot of times people get

2589
01:36:36,870 --> 01:36:35,679
involved in magic they've already read

2590
01:36:39,189 --> 01:36:36,880
the call because

2591
01:36:41,590 --> 01:36:39,199
they've seen the games they've read

2592
01:36:43,430 --> 01:36:41,600
books they've seen the movies when a

2593
01:36:45,270 --> 01:36:43,440
cthulhu comes up it kind of looks like

2594
01:36:47,990 --> 01:36:45,280
that because they're they're predisposed

2595
01:36:49,350 --> 01:36:48,000
to look like that however in my rituals

2596
01:36:51,590 --> 01:36:49,360
the one that i'm playing together into

2597
01:36:53,990 --> 01:36:51,600
the grimoire it's like a narrative what

2598
01:36:56,229 --> 01:36:54,000
happens you do the language you recite

2599
01:36:57,590 --> 01:36:56,239
the words of power you do the gestures

2600
01:36:59,750 --> 01:36:57,600
very minimal

2601
01:37:01,270 --> 01:36:59,760
use of magical weapons you can conjure

2602
01:37:04,310 --> 01:37:01,280
whatever you need just like they did in

2603
01:37:06,629 --> 01:37:04,320
dr strange and what will happen is that

2604
01:37:08,870 --> 01:37:06,639
you have an experience and it kind of

2605
01:37:10,310 --> 01:37:08,880
forms like a narrative and might not

2606
01:37:12,310 --> 01:37:10,320
have anything to do with what your

2607
01:37:13,990 --> 01:37:12,320
preconceptions are about cthulhu and

2608
01:37:15,430 --> 01:37:14,000
each time you do the ritual you have a

2609
01:37:17,669 --> 01:37:15,440
different experience and so you're

2610
01:37:20,149 --> 01:37:17,679
gaining more knowledge you might be

2611
01:37:21,910 --> 01:37:20,159
gaining power too but it's not the kind

2612
01:37:23,750 --> 01:37:21,920
of power where you ah i've got the power

2613
01:37:25,189 --> 01:37:23,760
of cthulhu now i'm going to blast you

2614
01:37:27,109 --> 01:37:25,199
like in the doctor's strength i've got

2615
01:37:28,790 --> 01:37:27,119
the power of the dark dimension so a

2616
01:37:30,629 --> 01:37:28,800
dormant muse behind me so i'm going to

2617
01:37:33,350 --> 01:37:30,639
do this or that it's not like that at

2618
01:37:36,229 --> 01:37:33,360
all it's not good or evil when we're

2619
01:37:38,870 --> 01:37:36,239
beyond time and space because time

2620
01:37:40,470 --> 01:37:38,880
in space is not good or evil but time is

2621
01:37:42,550 --> 01:37:40,480
not really good or evil either it's

2622
01:37:45,189 --> 01:37:42,560
human behavior and when we get past

2623
01:37:47,669 --> 01:37:45,199
human behavior and human centric things

2624
01:37:49,510 --> 01:37:47,679
we've left all that behind you know so

2625
01:37:50,870 --> 01:37:49,520
whatever people do if they've got

2626
01:37:53,590 --> 01:37:50,880
preconceptions they'll bring the

2627
01:37:55,270 --> 01:37:53,600
preconceptions they'll see cthulhu the

2628
01:37:57,510 --> 01:37:55,280
way that they're conditioned to see them

2629
01:37:59,030 --> 01:37:57,520
and maybe if they get lucky they'll see

2630
01:38:00,629 --> 01:37:59,040
it differently and they'll be having a

2631
01:38:03,350 --> 01:38:00,639
genuine narrative they'll have an

2632
01:38:05,990 --> 01:38:03,360
original relationship with the universe

2633
01:38:07,510 --> 01:38:06,000
which is what i think is a goal of magic

2634
01:38:09,750 --> 01:38:07,520
and that kind of leads me that's a

2635
01:38:11,669 --> 01:38:09,760
perfect kind of opening for

2636
01:38:12,870 --> 01:38:11,679
some listener questions this one comes

2637
01:38:14,390 --> 01:38:12,880
from red

2638
01:38:19,189 --> 01:38:14,400
who's been posting since the end of

2639
01:38:23,510 --> 01:38:21,430
where our listeners get a chance to post

2640
01:38:27,109 --> 01:38:23,520
questions for our guests and

2641
01:38:30,310 --> 01:38:27,119
red has come out uh he's posted uh over

2642
01:38:31,990 --> 01:38:30,320
500 messages and he kind of is broken

2643
01:38:33,430 --> 01:38:32,000
this up into three

2644
01:38:35,750 --> 01:38:33,440
different sort of

2645
01:38:37,030 --> 01:38:35,760
questions really question two i want to

2646
01:38:40,390 --> 01:38:37,040
start with that it's pretty well

2647
01:38:41,990 --> 01:38:40,400
documented that h.p lovecraft cribbed

2648
01:38:44,310 --> 01:38:42,000
quite a bit from the encyclopedia

2649
01:38:45,990 --> 01:38:44,320
britannica he reached out to one of his

2650
01:38:47,910 --> 01:38:46,000
pen pals where in the colt library and

2651
01:38:50,070 --> 01:38:47,920
asked to brought some of the titles

2652
01:38:52,229 --> 01:38:50,080
after lovecraft wrote the disastrous

2653
01:38:54,310 --> 01:38:52,239
horror red hook from which all the

2654
01:38:56,550 --> 01:38:54,320
occult references had been taken from

2655
01:38:58,950 --> 01:38:56,560
the encyclopedia i guess he learned from

2656
01:39:02,550 --> 01:38:58,960
his mistakes as a good chunk of his

2657
01:39:04,950 --> 01:39:02,560
mythos was established before that book

2658
01:39:06,709 --> 01:39:04,960
how do you feel lovecraft managed to tap

2659
01:39:09,510 --> 01:39:06,719
into the beginnings of a workable

2660
01:39:11,669 --> 01:39:09,520
magical system with practically no real

2661
01:39:12,870 --> 01:39:11,679
functional knowledge of the occult he

2662
01:39:14,550 --> 01:39:12,880
never did

2663
01:39:16,390 --> 01:39:14,560
caller is perfectly right about that he

2664
01:39:18,070 --> 01:39:16,400
actually mined the encyclopedia

2665
01:39:19,830 --> 01:39:18,080
britannica i talked about this in

2666
01:39:21,830 --> 01:39:19,840
chapter two by the way where he gets his

2667
01:39:24,629 --> 01:39:21,840
information from he did ask his friend

2668
01:39:27,990 --> 01:39:24,639
clark aston smith to suggest books of

2669
01:39:30,470 --> 01:39:28,000
magic and in my book i explore exactly

2670
01:39:32,550 --> 01:39:30,480
the uh documents that he read the books

2671
01:39:34,229 --> 01:39:32,560
he had a very superficial knowledge of

2672
01:39:37,910 --> 01:39:34,239
magic and what he was doing he was

2673
01:39:40,229 --> 01:39:37,920
mining that for atmosphere and for words

2674
01:39:42,390 --> 01:39:40,239
and for concepts that he could kind of

2675
01:39:44,229 --> 01:39:42,400
use in his stories kind of like as a

2676
01:39:45,830 --> 01:39:44,239
justification for what he was actually

2677
01:39:47,750 --> 01:39:45,840
trying to create so he wasn't really

2678
01:39:50,229 --> 01:39:47,760
seriously interested in practicing magic

2679
01:39:52,470 --> 01:39:50,239
he never formulated a magical system so

2680
01:39:54,390 --> 01:39:52,480
they were literary devices basically

2681
01:39:56,550 --> 01:39:54,400
they were literary devices he actually

2682
01:39:58,229 --> 01:39:56,560
stole a conjuration out there and it's

2683
01:40:00,550 --> 01:39:58,239
supposed to be a really damn he

2684
01:40:03,350 --> 01:40:00,560
would call a damnable conjuration for

2685
01:40:05,990 --> 01:40:03,360
doing something it was actually a latin

2686
01:40:07,270 --> 01:40:06,000
evocation that he got from a lethal levi

2687
01:40:09,109 --> 01:40:07,280
he didn't get it from a leaf elephants

2688
01:40:10,870 --> 01:40:09,119
levi's original document the

2689
01:40:12,709 --> 01:40:10,880
transcendental magic but he actually got

2690
01:40:14,470 --> 01:40:12,719
it from the encyclopedia britannica

2691
01:40:16,310 --> 01:40:14,480
version of that i talked about all that

2692
01:40:18,709 --> 01:40:16,320
in my book and what it was was it was

2693
01:40:20,629 --> 01:40:18,719
supposed to be a really evil conjuration

2694
01:40:23,189 --> 01:40:20,639
and it was actually just a conjuration

2695
01:40:25,270 --> 01:40:23,199
for calling up the different elementals

2696
01:40:27,510 --> 01:40:25,280
for alchemical kind of things calling on

2697
01:40:29,350 --> 01:40:27,520
so you're calling up elementals for uh

2698
01:40:31,109 --> 01:40:29,360
fire water air and earth there was

2699
01:40:33,270 --> 01:40:31,119
nothing really damnable about it all in

2700
01:40:34,870 --> 01:40:33,280
fact i dissect a couple of those in

2701
01:40:37,030 --> 01:40:34,880
chapter two and show that they really

2702
01:40:38,709 --> 01:40:37,040
weren't that like he would heap all

2703
01:40:40,149 --> 01:40:38,719
those words in there and the words

2704
01:40:41,750 --> 01:40:40,159
didn't mean he didn't know what the

2705
01:40:44,310 --> 01:40:41,760
words meant you know but most of them

2706
01:40:46,229 --> 01:40:44,320
were like old 10th century grimoires

2707
01:40:48,470 --> 01:40:46,239
they had words like different names to

2708
01:40:49,750 --> 01:40:48,480
god or different names to angels and he

2709
01:40:51,430 --> 01:40:49,760
didn't even know that he just kind of

2710
01:40:52,950 --> 01:40:51,440
dumped it in there so it was like what

2711
01:40:55,590 --> 01:40:52,960
you said it was a literary device but

2712
01:40:57,109 --> 01:40:55,600
lovecraft did not found a magical system

2713
01:41:00,390 --> 01:40:57,119
what he was doing he was trying to find

2714
01:41:02,470 --> 01:41:00,400
some way to get his narrators into the

2715
01:41:04,790 --> 01:41:02,480
kind of experiences i'm talking about he

2716
01:41:06,470 --> 01:41:04,800
used magic to do that sometimes he

2717
01:41:07,270 --> 01:41:06,480
didn't like in the thing you're talking

2718
01:41:08,790 --> 01:41:07,280
about

2719
01:41:11,189 --> 01:41:08,800
your favorite and that's considered one

2720
01:41:13,510 --> 01:41:11,199
of his best stories by the way the uh

2721
01:41:15,350 --> 01:41:13,520
mountains of madness that one he stays

2722
01:41:17,669 --> 01:41:15,360
on the regular physical plane there i

2723
01:41:19,430 --> 01:41:17,679
mean they discover ancient astronauts

2724
01:41:21,350 --> 01:41:19,440
that colonize that before the earth and

2725
01:41:24,310 --> 01:41:21,360
there's no magic yeah it's it's it's

2726
01:41:26,149 --> 01:41:24,320
sci-fi i mean yeah it's sci-fi and you

2727
01:41:28,229 --> 01:41:26,159
know the weird thing about it is like i

2728
01:41:30,310 --> 01:41:28,239
got a really good endorsement from st

2729
01:41:32,149 --> 01:41:30,320
jose who's actually an atheist and he

2730
01:41:33,590 --> 01:41:32,159
doesn't believe in anything occult and

2731
01:41:34,950 --> 01:41:33,600
he had to kind of grit his teeth when he

2732
01:41:37,189 --> 01:41:34,960
read my book but he gave me a good

2733
01:41:39,109 --> 01:41:37,199
endorsement anyhow but anyhow he makes

2734
01:41:40,550 --> 01:41:39,119
the argument and his argument's wrong he

2735
01:41:42,510 --> 01:41:40,560
makes the argument the lovecraft was

2736
01:41:44,950 --> 01:41:42,520
moving away from magic it was

2737
01:41:47,109 --> 01:41:44,960
demythologizing his mythos and so it's

2738
01:41:49,510 --> 01:41:47,119
all going to be like aliens it's all

2739
01:41:51,910 --> 01:41:49,520
going to be extraterrestrial aliens and

2740
01:41:53,669 --> 01:41:51,920
he argues that we see lovecraft moving

2741
01:41:56,149 --> 01:41:53,679
away from magic and stories like that

2742
01:41:58,550 --> 01:41:56,159
but the way that this falls apart is

2743
01:42:00,470 --> 01:41:58,560
that he was really i would disagree too

2744
01:42:02,070 --> 01:42:00,480
because he we'd have to see a consistent

2745
01:42:04,070 --> 01:42:02,080
pairing like you'd have to see a parent

2746
01:42:06,149 --> 01:42:04,080
like the dunwich it's pure magic

2747
01:42:07,910 --> 01:42:06,159
in the dumb witch what after the dunwich

2748
01:42:10,390 --> 01:42:07,920
horror when you start doing the whisper

2749
01:42:12,550 --> 01:42:10,400
in darkness it's also extraterrestrials

2750
01:42:15,510 --> 01:42:12,560
and then the mountain madness

2751
01:42:17,669 --> 01:42:15,520
jumps around there's no curve going on

2752
01:42:19,590 --> 01:42:17,679
there's no curb like you'll see a couple

2753
01:42:21,750 --> 01:42:19,600
stories that are completely science

2754
01:42:23,189 --> 01:42:21,760
fiction the colorado space is completely

2755
01:42:25,669 --> 01:42:23,199
science fiction something comes out of

2756
01:42:29,189 --> 01:42:25,679
space it goes bad but then what do you

2757
01:42:30,470 --> 01:42:29,199
see like later on in 1933 after these

2758
01:42:32,070 --> 01:42:30,480
you see him running the thing on the

2759
01:42:34,310 --> 01:42:32,080
doorstep which is about magical

2760
01:42:36,229 --> 01:42:34,320
practitioner who actually possesses the

2761
01:42:38,149 --> 01:42:36,239
body of his daughter so it's about

2762
01:42:39,910 --> 01:42:38,159
magical possession there and then you've

2763
01:42:41,750 --> 01:42:39,920
got like the shadow all time and there's

2764
01:42:43,430 --> 01:42:41,760
another extraterrestrial one and then

2765
01:42:47,270 --> 01:42:43,440
the haunter of the dark which was his

2766
01:42:49,030 --> 01:42:47,280
last story in 1925 that's pure magical

2767
01:42:51,350 --> 01:42:49,040
like the person conscious of using a

2768
01:42:53,750 --> 01:42:51,360
trapezoid he conscious up a magical

2769
01:42:55,910 --> 01:42:53,760
entity so lovecraft jumps back and forth

2770
01:42:58,149 --> 01:42:55,920
and what i think he's trying to do he's

2771
01:43:00,470 --> 01:42:58,159
trying to use different methodologies

2772
01:43:02,629 --> 01:43:00,480
different narratives to actually express

2773
01:43:04,950 --> 01:43:02,639
things that are inexpressible but things

2774
01:43:07,910 --> 01:43:04,960
that fascinate him completely things he

2775
01:43:10,310 --> 01:43:07,920
dreamed about at night and want to share

2776
01:43:11,750 --> 01:43:10,320
those dreams with us too in the daytime

2777
01:43:13,750 --> 01:43:11,760
lovecraft was an atheist and a

2778
01:43:15,590 --> 01:43:13,760
materialist at night time he couldn't

2779
01:43:17,590 --> 01:43:15,600
control what was going into his dreams

2780
01:43:19,510 --> 01:43:17,600
and he wanted to share those with us and

2781
01:43:21,669 --> 01:43:19,520
when he did it sometimes he came out

2782
01:43:23,430 --> 01:43:21,679
scientific and sometimes it came out

2783
01:43:25,990 --> 01:43:23,440
magical he never

2784
01:43:27,669 --> 01:43:26,000
once devoted himself entire to one point

2785
01:43:29,430 --> 01:43:27,679
of view or the other point of view and

2786
01:43:31,590 --> 01:43:29,440
that's why i think he's so strong why

2787
01:43:34,070 --> 01:43:31,600
the takami and lovecraft is so strong he

2788
01:43:35,990 --> 01:43:34,080
never resolved that conflict between the

2789
01:43:37,750 --> 01:43:36,000
night side and the dark side i think

2790
01:43:39,669 --> 01:43:37,760
that's why it's so powerful because with

2791
01:43:40,470 --> 01:43:39,679
all the rest of us that's the way we are

2792
01:43:42,470 --> 01:43:40,480
too

2793
01:43:44,470 --> 01:43:42,480
i believe that's the way we all are and

2794
01:43:47,030 --> 01:43:44,480
you can say that about stephen king too

2795
01:43:49,270 --> 01:43:47,040
in some ways uh for someone that has had

2796
01:43:51,750 --> 01:43:49,280
such a prodigious output you know you

2797
01:43:54,550 --> 01:43:51,760
can always kind of pigeonhole him in a

2798
01:43:56,709 --> 01:43:54,560
horror sense but where that horror goes

2799
01:43:59,669 --> 01:43:56,719
it shoots out tendrils

2800
01:44:01,430 --> 01:43:59,679
cthulhu face tentacles all through every

2801
01:44:04,310 --> 01:44:01,440
genre out there

2802
01:44:06,229 --> 01:44:04,320
and he borrows and steals liberally and

2803
01:44:08,629 --> 01:44:06,239
i think obviously lovecraft must have

2804
01:44:10,950 --> 01:44:08,639
been uh a real

2805
01:44:12,550 --> 01:44:10,960
you know early very powerful uh

2806
01:44:14,229 --> 01:44:12,560
influence on him

2807
01:44:16,390 --> 01:44:14,239
but do you see where the horrors the

2808
01:44:18,870 --> 01:44:16,400
horrors and the monsters the horrors and

2809
01:44:21,590 --> 01:44:18,880
then people being torn but the horrors

2810
01:44:23,990 --> 01:44:21,600
and the human condition

2811
01:44:26,229 --> 01:44:24,000
the human condition and the fact that

2812
01:44:28,149 --> 01:44:26,239
just a slight change in perception and

2813
01:44:29,510 --> 01:44:28,159
then it's all different and we don't

2814
01:44:31,590 --> 01:44:29,520
really understand what's happening but

2815
01:44:33,510 --> 01:44:31,600
we're certainly not in control anymore

2816
01:44:35,830 --> 01:44:33,520
we're very minor

2817
01:44:37,750 --> 01:44:35,840
a very minor player and then lovecraft

2818
01:44:39,750 --> 01:44:37,760
has constantly taken us to look out the

2819
01:44:42,149 --> 01:44:39,760
cosmos itself and if you think about the

2820
01:44:43,910 --> 01:44:42,159
gospels my god it's frightening out

2821
01:44:46,070 --> 01:44:43,920
there i mean we've only been on the

2822
01:44:47,590 --> 01:44:46,080
earth for a small amount of time another

2823
01:44:49,590 --> 01:44:47,600
15 billion years or so we're gonna have

2824
01:44:51,510 --> 01:44:49,600
the great crunch where the great bang

2825
01:44:54,070 --> 01:44:51,520
reaches its final extension and pulls

2826
01:44:57,350 --> 01:44:54,080
back if the sun hasn't gone nova before

2827
01:44:59,430 --> 01:44:57,360
then we're goners we're goners right so

2828
01:45:01,750 --> 01:44:59,440
we're gonna wait before that there's

2829
01:45:04,229 --> 01:45:01,760
gonna be some celestial

2830
01:45:05,830 --> 01:45:04,239
traffic traffic crash uh with an

2831
01:45:08,629 --> 01:45:05,840
asteroid

2832
01:45:11,270 --> 01:45:08,639
that is a horror and that lovecraft

2833
01:45:12,790 --> 01:45:11,280
expresses so well and why some other

2834
01:45:14,629 --> 01:45:12,800
writers just can't do i mean look at the

2835
01:45:16,950 --> 01:45:14,639
walking dead on tv they're worried about

2836
01:45:18,870 --> 01:45:16,960
a bunch of zombies right well i'll tell

2837
01:45:21,750 --> 01:45:18,880
you what before the zombies take over

2838
01:45:23,030 --> 01:45:21,760
the show we've got a break they already

2839
01:45:25,830 --> 01:45:23,040
have

2840
01:45:28,220 --> 01:45:25,840
with gene and some strange creature

2841
01:45:38,950 --> 01:45:28,230
you're in

2842
01:45:44,390 --> 01:45:42,470
you are listening to gcn

2843
01:45:44,820 --> 01:45:44,400
visit gcnlive.com

2844
01:45:47,510 --> 01:45:44,830
today

2845
01:45:49,830 --> 01:45:47,520
[Music]

2846
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2863
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2865
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that's the swag from the powercast you

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2868
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2869
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2870
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2880
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[Applause]

2894
01:47:56,390 --> 01:47:53,820
[Music]

2895
01:47:59,669 --> 01:47:56,400
[Applause]

2896
01:48:03,350 --> 01:47:59,679
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2897
01:48:04,550 --> 01:48:03,360
standard of paranormal radio

2898
01:48:07,880 --> 01:48:04,560
and now

2899
01:48:11,430 --> 01:48:07,890
here's jane steinberg

2900
01:48:14,790 --> 01:48:13,030
chris o'brien ladies and gentlemen has

2901
01:48:17,510 --> 01:48:14,800
been possessed

2902
01:48:21,350 --> 01:48:17,520
by something weird something frightening

2903
01:48:23,830 --> 01:48:21,360
no that was my that was my frank durban

2904
01:48:26,229 --> 01:48:23,840
walking dead zombie imitation

2905
01:48:28,310 --> 01:48:26,239
why are we so hung up on zombies these

2906
01:48:30,310 --> 01:48:28,320
days i never understood that you know i

2907
01:48:31,510 --> 01:48:30,320
come out of the frankenstein dracula

2908
01:48:34,070 --> 01:48:31,520
tradition

2909
01:48:35,750 --> 01:48:34,080
but the zombies never did it for me

2910
01:48:37,430 --> 01:48:35,760
yeah and it's it's different kinds of

2911
01:48:40,229 --> 01:48:37,440
zombies now

2912
01:48:42,950 --> 01:48:40,239
you have your your george romero kind of

2913
01:48:43,990 --> 01:48:42,960
you know plodding along zombies and then

2914
01:48:46,149 --> 01:48:44,000
you have your

2915
01:48:49,030 --> 01:48:46,159
your world war z

2916
01:48:51,189 --> 01:48:49,040
impossibly quick zombies

2917
01:48:53,430 --> 01:48:51,199
so we're we're kind of branching out it

2918
01:48:55,669 --> 01:48:53,440
kind of reminds me of heavy metal there

2919
01:48:57,669 --> 01:48:55,679
used to be like heavy metal

2920
01:49:00,310 --> 01:48:57,679
and now there's like 30 different

2921
01:49:02,550 --> 01:49:00,320
subcategories so i kind of envisioned

2922
01:49:04,070 --> 01:49:02,560
the same thing happening to the to the

2923
01:49:06,310 --> 01:49:04,080
zombie uh

2924
01:49:07,430 --> 01:49:06,320
genre movie

2925
01:49:09,590 --> 01:49:07,440
you know what's interesting about

2926
01:49:11,430 --> 01:49:09,600
zombies since you guys are talking about

2927
01:49:13,030 --> 01:49:11,440
am i on again i want to talk about

2928
01:49:14,629 --> 01:49:13,040
zombies for one minute i never thought

2929
01:49:16,709 --> 01:49:14,639
zombies were too good but i did see this

2930
01:49:19,109 --> 01:49:16,719
movie called warm bodies did you see

2931
01:49:21,830 --> 01:49:19,119
that one it was kind of a comedy where a

2932
01:49:23,830 --> 01:49:21,840
zombie kind learns to as hard as being

2933
01:49:25,590 --> 01:49:23,840
again they kind of change his perception

2934
01:49:27,270 --> 01:49:25,600
turns back into a living human being did

2935
01:49:28,550 --> 01:49:27,280
you see that movies

2936
01:49:29,990 --> 01:49:28,560
i don't know

2937
01:49:31,030 --> 01:49:30,000
sounds kind of

2938
01:49:33,270 --> 01:49:31,040
porn

2939
01:49:36,149 --> 01:49:33,280
no no it's not that it's a movie it's

2940
01:49:38,390 --> 01:49:36,159
like a girl a zombie for some reason

2941
01:49:40,149 --> 01:49:38,400
it's a young man and for some reason he

2942
01:49:42,470 --> 01:49:40,159
doesn't attack the girl but then she

2943
01:49:44,950 --> 01:49:42,480
ikai rescues her from the other zombies

2944
01:49:46,790 --> 01:49:44,960
and he kind of learns to be human again

2945
01:49:49,430 --> 01:49:46,800
and i think it's a really interesting

2946
01:49:52,629 --> 01:49:49,440
movie because it sounds like

2947
01:49:54,390 --> 01:49:52,639
it sounds like every sitcom on tv

2948
01:49:56,149 --> 01:49:54,400
yeah but it's different like those

2949
01:49:58,310 --> 01:49:56,159
zombies in the walking dead they can't

2950
01:50:00,310 --> 01:49:58,320
come back i mean they're already

2951
01:50:01,830 --> 01:50:00,320
infected and they're not there's they

2952
01:50:03,590 --> 01:50:01,840
can't be really human anymore they're

2953
01:50:06,550 --> 01:50:03,600
kind of just like shells they're being

2954
01:50:08,229 --> 01:50:06,560
animated somehow but in this one the guy

2955
01:50:11,189 --> 01:50:08,239
actually came back

2956
01:50:13,590 --> 01:50:11,199
and then he could he kind uh by a change

2957
01:50:16,070 --> 01:50:13,600
of perception or feeling he actually

2958
01:50:18,550 --> 01:50:16,080
perceived himself away from being uh a

2959
01:50:20,229 --> 01:50:18,560
zombie into human again they slowly

2960
01:50:22,470 --> 01:50:20,239
evolved into him he could fall in love

2961
01:50:24,709 --> 01:50:22,480
and stuff and then the other zombies

2962
01:50:26,229 --> 01:50:24,719
they found ways to do that and then they

2963
01:50:27,830 --> 01:50:26,239
were all kind of cured but they cured

2964
01:50:29,590 --> 01:50:27,840
themselves by changing their perception

2965
01:50:32,310 --> 01:50:29,600
i thought they were injuries

2966
01:50:33,590 --> 01:50:32,320
i was wondering kind of remediating some

2967
01:50:34,390 --> 01:50:33,600
good

2968
01:50:36,310 --> 01:50:34,400
yeah

2969
01:50:38,390 --> 01:50:36,320
but it's kind of like you know zombies

2970
01:50:40,149 --> 01:50:38,400
you're kind of dead but you kind by

2971
01:50:41,990 --> 01:50:40,159
perception you realize you're not really

2972
01:50:44,070 --> 01:50:42,000
dead at all and i think that could be a

2973
01:50:45,430 --> 01:50:44,080
metaphor for something even more

2974
01:50:47,109 --> 01:50:45,440
profound than that but i thought it was

2975
01:50:49,030 --> 01:50:47,119
a good movie at least it was a creative

2976
01:50:49,990 --> 01:50:49,040
movie most of the time

2977
01:50:56,149 --> 01:50:50,000
bodies

2978
01:50:57,910 --> 01:50:56,159
yeah yeah remedial zombie hood you know

2979
01:50:59,830 --> 01:50:57,920
we're running out of time uh john so

2980
01:51:01,990 --> 01:50:59,840
let's let's kind of move on here

2981
01:51:04,629 --> 01:51:02,000
i'll get that yeah no that's all right i

2982
01:51:06,229 --> 01:51:04,639
brought it up so whatever works

2983
01:51:06,950 --> 01:51:06,239
this another question from red by the

2984
01:51:10,070 --> 01:51:06,960
way

2985
01:51:12,790 --> 01:51:10,080
dan harms argues that this simon

2986
01:51:13,830 --> 01:51:12,800
necronomicon contains magical booby

2987
01:51:16,149 --> 01:51:13,840
traps

2988
01:51:18,550 --> 01:51:16,159
that might not trip up an experienced

2989
01:51:21,270 --> 01:51:18,560
magician or practitioner but could trip

2990
01:51:23,189 --> 01:51:21,280
up the newbies in fact there used to be

2991
01:51:25,350 --> 01:51:23,199
an online support group of people who

2992
01:51:28,550 --> 01:51:25,360
claimed to be victims of this version of

2993
01:51:29,430 --> 01:51:28,560
the necronomicon a fictitional book by

2994
01:51:36,310 --> 01:51:29,440
the

2995
01:51:39,030 --> 01:51:36,320
right exactly yeah would you be willing

2996
01:51:41,270 --> 01:51:39,040
to spend a few minutes discussing your

2997
01:51:43,270 --> 01:51:41,280
thoughts on and views on this i think

2998
01:51:44,629 --> 01:51:43,280
that's a good question yeah it's a good

2999
01:51:46,709 --> 01:51:44,639
question i gotta tell you something you

3000
01:51:48,229 --> 01:51:46,719
know okay i've read about that for years

3001
01:51:50,870 --> 01:51:48,239
the traps and everything you know i've

3002
01:51:53,109 --> 01:51:50,880
never had anybody say specifically what

3003
01:51:55,350 --> 01:51:53,119
those traps are actually point to now

3004
01:51:57,430 --> 01:51:55,360
i've used some of the rituals in there

3005
01:51:58,870 --> 01:51:57,440
uh like when i do some did some of my

3006
01:52:01,669 --> 01:51:58,880
rituals i did

3007
01:52:03,350 --> 01:52:01,679
evocation of yog soto and i have uh one

3008
01:52:05,510 --> 01:52:03,360
of my magician friends would be in in

3009
01:52:07,350 --> 01:52:05,520
charge of the main circle and he would

3010
01:52:09,270 --> 01:52:07,360
always do that watcher which they've got

3011
01:52:11,030 --> 01:52:09,280
a rich one they're called the e-vocation

3012
01:52:12,950 --> 01:52:11,040
of the watcher and the watchers like

3013
01:52:15,669 --> 01:52:12,960
some kind entity that you conjure up to

3014
01:52:17,350 --> 01:52:15,679
kind of protect the area from any kind

3015
01:52:19,189 --> 01:52:17,360
untoward experiences because when you

3016
01:52:20,870 --> 01:52:19,199
start working with lovecraftian entities

3017
01:52:22,629 --> 01:52:20,880
a lot of things happen around the

3018
01:52:24,390 --> 01:52:22,639
perimeters of the circle and it was his

3019
01:52:26,550 --> 01:52:24,400
job to make sure it was all impregnable

3020
01:52:28,550 --> 01:52:26,560
so he would use the watcher ceremony and

3021
01:52:30,310 --> 01:52:28,560
i've used a couple of the other things

3022
01:52:32,149 --> 01:52:30,320
in here but i've never found any traps

3023
01:52:35,270 --> 01:52:32,159
at all now i'm a pretty experienced

3024
01:52:37,830 --> 01:52:35,280
magical practitioner but i'm pretty sure

3025
01:52:39,830 --> 01:52:37,840
that the traps are because of the

3026
01:52:42,229 --> 01:52:39,840
uh inexperience of the person doing it

3027
01:52:44,550 --> 01:52:42,239
not so much in the rituals themselves i

3028
01:52:46,229 --> 01:52:44,560
mean if you have to actually be very

3029
01:52:47,589 --> 01:52:46,239
highly disciplined you have to be very

3030
01:52:49,750 --> 01:52:47,599
strong world you have to have a good

3031
01:52:52,310 --> 01:52:49,760
motor calm of intelligence a good sense

3032
01:52:53,830 --> 01:52:52,320
of humor and you need to have magical

3033
01:52:56,149 --> 01:52:53,840
ability

3034
01:52:59,030 --> 01:52:56,159
also i would think that you would need

3035
01:53:01,350 --> 01:52:59,040
some form of rationale you know like a

3036
01:53:03,350 --> 01:53:01,360
goal and and this leads me to red's

3037
01:53:05,030 --> 01:53:03,360
third question considering that most of

3038
01:53:07,510 --> 01:53:05,040
lovecraft's fiction dealt with the

3039
01:53:10,310 --> 01:53:07,520
encroachment of vast unknowable horrors

3040
01:53:12,629 --> 01:53:10,320
into a reality inhabited by mankind is

3041
01:53:14,950 --> 01:53:12,639
there any other functional purpose for

3042
01:53:17,910 --> 01:53:14,960
working with such a system why would you

3043
01:53:19,350 --> 01:53:17,920
even do a lovecraft ritual well if

3044
01:53:21,189 --> 01:53:19,360
you're in a lower level of mental

3045
01:53:23,430 --> 01:53:21,199
development you do it to actually cause

3046
01:53:24,950 --> 01:53:23,440
an apocalypse there's actually a couple

3047
01:53:26,790 --> 01:53:24,960
groups around there

3048
01:53:28,629 --> 01:53:26,800
uh one group i forget what they call

3049
01:53:30,229 --> 01:53:28,639
himself but led by somebody calls him

3050
01:53:32,149 --> 01:53:30,239
virgo satanis

3051
01:53:33,750 --> 01:53:32,159
and he's actually does the rituals to

3052
01:53:35,750 --> 01:53:33,760
actually bring about the apocalypse he

3053
01:53:37,669 --> 01:53:35,760
wants to wipe out humanity the way

3054
01:53:40,470 --> 01:53:37,679
wilbur whaley tried to do on the dunwood

3055
01:53:42,390 --> 01:53:40,480
tour and replace this dimension with

3056
01:53:44,310 --> 01:53:42,400
great old ones that's not a very good

3057
01:53:45,669 --> 01:53:44,320
purpose usually what happens when you do

3058
01:53:47,750 --> 01:53:45,679
that you end up

3059
01:53:50,229 --> 01:53:47,760
messing up your own mind and the rest of

3060
01:53:51,990 --> 01:53:50,239
the world goes blissfully on but i read

3061
01:53:53,830 --> 01:53:52,000
his name's red he actually brings up a

3062
01:53:56,149 --> 01:53:53,840
very good question why would you want to

3063
01:53:58,310 --> 01:53:56,159
do that and the only answer that i can

3064
01:54:00,629 --> 01:53:58,320
give red for that is it's certainly not

3065
01:54:02,790 --> 01:54:00,639
for spiritual perfection okay now you

3066
01:54:04,709 --> 01:54:02,800
got donald tyson out there with that

3067
01:54:06,550 --> 01:54:04,719
well no you've got donald tyson out

3068
01:54:07,750 --> 01:54:06,560
there with the grim or the necronomicon

3069
01:54:09,430 --> 01:54:07,760
he argues that we're trying to

3070
01:54:11,430 --> 01:54:09,440
spiritually perfect ourselves and that

3071
01:54:13,270 --> 01:54:11,440
we have to mentor with the old ones and

3072
01:54:14,950 --> 01:54:13,280
that runs counter to everything in

3073
01:54:17,189 --> 01:54:14,960
lovecraft these things don't even

3074
01:54:19,030 --> 01:54:17,199
consider humans anything more than we

3075
01:54:22,229 --> 01:54:19,040
would consider an ant that's been a

3076
01:54:24,229 --> 01:54:22,239
termite to a commune with the dalai lama

3077
01:54:26,070 --> 01:54:24,239
yeah well that'd be like a termite by

3078
01:54:28,550 --> 01:54:26,080
trying to communicate with me so they

3079
01:54:30,310 --> 01:54:28,560
can become human we're going to step on

3080
01:54:31,830 --> 01:54:30,320
or eradicate we're not going to commit

3081
01:54:34,149 --> 01:54:31,840
we don't care about the trauma and the

3082
01:54:35,750 --> 01:54:34,159
old ones view us in that way too if we

3083
01:54:38,550 --> 01:54:35,760
want to see them viewing this that way

3084
01:54:41,030 --> 01:54:38,560
but there's only one reason for doing

3085
01:54:44,790 --> 01:54:41,040
this and i talk about that in my book

3086
01:54:46,070 --> 01:54:44,800
the goal of magic is basically knowledge

3087
01:54:47,910 --> 01:54:46,080
or power

3088
01:54:50,149 --> 01:54:47,920
and when i say knowledge of power it's

3089
01:54:51,830 --> 01:54:50,159
just simply knowledge it's just simply

3090
01:54:54,550 --> 01:54:51,840
knowledge a person goes to college they

3091
01:54:56,950 --> 01:54:54,560
get an undergraduate degree in

3092
01:54:58,310 --> 01:54:56,960
philosophy or psychology they gain a lot

3093
01:55:00,070 --> 01:54:58,320
of knowledge and then they can apply

3094
01:55:01,350 --> 01:55:00,080
that knowledge in certain ways right

3095
01:55:03,830 --> 01:55:01,360
well that's what we're doing here we're

3096
01:55:05,430 --> 01:55:03,840
gaining knowledge of things that are

3097
01:55:07,510 --> 01:55:05,440
behind the veil that we haven't been

3098
01:55:09,589 --> 01:55:07,520
able to see so it's just pure knowledge

3099
01:55:11,750 --> 01:55:09,599
and sometimes power sometimes you want

3100
01:55:14,229 --> 01:55:11,760
to make a little tweaking going on to

3101
01:55:15,990 --> 01:55:14,239
make your life more comfortable or to a

3102
01:55:17,910 --> 01:55:16,000
little spell or something so that's for

3103
01:55:21,030 --> 01:55:17,920
power too but i'm not talking about bad

3104
01:55:23,189 --> 01:55:21,040
knowledge to dominate or bad power to

3105
01:55:25,750 --> 01:55:23,199
dominate i'm talking about just pure

3106
01:55:27,589 --> 01:55:25,760
knowledge and power that's why we do it

3107
01:55:29,830 --> 01:55:27,599
there's no other reason for doing it

3108
01:55:32,149 --> 01:55:29,840
it's not certainly for self development

3109
01:55:33,910 --> 01:55:32,159
some people argue that if a person gets

3110
01:55:35,669 --> 01:55:33,920
more and more experiences dealing with

3111
01:55:37,350 --> 01:55:35,679
alternate dimensions and different

3112
01:55:40,149 --> 01:55:37,360
perceptions that when you die you don't

3113
01:55:42,390 --> 01:55:40,159
die you just simply perceive things

3114
01:55:43,830 --> 01:55:42,400
differently the way those zombies and

3115
01:55:45,030 --> 01:55:43,840
warm bodies are perceiving things

3116
01:55:46,550 --> 01:55:45,040
differently then you go on to a

3117
01:55:48,149 --> 01:55:46,560
different form of life in a different

3118
01:55:50,310 --> 01:55:48,159
dimension it's really concurrent with

3119
01:55:52,870 --> 01:55:50,320
this dimension right now you know so

3120
01:55:55,030 --> 01:55:52,880
maybe you prolong your life into another

3121
01:55:56,709 --> 01:55:55,040
form of life i don't know for sure can't

3122
01:55:58,950 --> 01:55:56,719
empirically prove it but i know for a

3123
01:56:01,510 --> 01:55:58,960
fact the reason why you do magic right

3124
01:56:03,830 --> 01:56:01,520
now here and now is for knowledge and

3125
01:56:05,990 --> 01:56:03,840
power so i i think that answers red's

3126
01:56:08,229 --> 01:56:06,000
question specifically i have a question

3127
01:56:10,470 --> 01:56:08,239
myself i wanted to drop in here

3128
01:56:12,070 --> 01:56:10,480
for those who really want to try to get

3129
01:56:13,830 --> 01:56:12,080
into this

3130
01:56:15,189 --> 01:56:13,840
and you know we see all the horror films

3131
01:56:18,550 --> 01:56:15,199
where somebody

3132
01:56:20,950 --> 01:56:18,560
child or a teenager is naive and they

3133
01:56:22,950 --> 01:56:20,960
look at these magical spells and they

3134
01:56:24,790 --> 01:56:22,960
try to do something and of course

3135
01:56:26,870 --> 01:56:24,800
there's always some bad result they call

3136
01:56:28,790 --> 01:56:26,880
up some horrible monster and have to

3137
01:56:31,030 --> 01:56:28,800
spend the rest of the film

3138
01:56:32,229 --> 01:56:31,040
trying to get rid of the monster and

3139
01:56:33,830 --> 01:56:32,239
learn

3140
01:56:36,629 --> 01:56:33,840
and become chastened because they

3141
01:56:37,750 --> 01:56:36,639
learned that you're not supposed

3142
01:56:38,629 --> 01:56:37,760
to

3143
01:56:39,589 --> 01:56:38,639
mess

3144
01:56:41,030 --> 01:56:39,599
with

3145
01:56:42,870 --> 01:56:41,040
powers that are beyond your

3146
01:56:46,229 --> 01:56:42,880
understanding you have to be careful you

3147
01:56:47,910 --> 01:56:46,239
have to be knowledgeable oh yeah okay so

3148
01:56:49,750 --> 01:56:47,920
and we're going to talk about this in

3149
01:56:52,790 --> 01:56:49,760
the remaining three segments plus more

3150
01:56:54,629 --> 01:56:52,800
listeners questions and that is

3151
01:56:57,189 --> 01:56:54,639
for our next segment maybe we'll start

3152
01:56:59,510 --> 01:56:57,199
with this the answer to this question

3153
01:57:01,109 --> 01:56:59,520
all right if some of our listeners want

3154
01:57:02,709 --> 01:57:01,119
to read up on this they'll read up your

3155
01:57:04,790 --> 01:57:02,719
book they maybe do some follow-up

3156
01:57:05,990 --> 01:57:04,800
research and they want to cast a few

3157
01:57:08,550 --> 01:57:06,000
spells

3158
01:57:11,750 --> 01:57:08,560
and i'll caution you that i'm not saying

3159
01:57:13,750 --> 01:57:11,760
people should cast spells necessarily

3160
01:57:16,310 --> 01:57:13,760
but maybe just

3161
01:57:19,910 --> 01:57:16,320
to play with a few things that's all

3162
01:57:21,750 --> 01:57:19,920
should we tell them no no way

3163
01:57:23,510 --> 01:57:21,760
wait until you really know what you're

3164
01:57:26,229 --> 01:57:23,520
doing or is there something they could

3165
01:57:29,669 --> 01:57:26,239
do to just you know test the waters

3166
01:57:31,270 --> 01:57:29,679
without any really nasty blowback it

3167
01:57:33,510 --> 01:57:31,280
sounds like the beginnings of a horror

3168
01:57:34,709 --> 01:57:33,520
film more to come with john stedman and

3169
01:57:36,149 --> 01:57:34,719
jean and chris

3170
01:57:38,070 --> 01:57:36,159
you're in

3171
01:57:38,750 --> 01:57:38,080
the paradise

3172
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02:00:18,550 --> 02:00:16,800
indie hammered knives custom knives made

3231
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3232
02:00:23,830 --> 02:00:21,119
it's been said any society is only three

3233
02:00:26,149 --> 02:00:23,840
missed meals away from chaos those times

3234
02:00:27,830 --> 02:00:26,159
may be near think about it our country

3235
02:00:30,149 --> 02:00:27,840
faces multiple terrorist threats and

3236
02:00:32,070 --> 02:00:30,159
aggressions from russia and north korea

3237
02:00:33,910 --> 02:00:32,080
social unrest and violent marches yet

3238
02:00:35,910 --> 02:00:33,920
again may lead to looting of stores and

3239
02:00:37,510 --> 02:00:35,920
city shutdowns and our crumbling

3240
02:00:39,510 --> 02:00:37,520
infrastructure leaves our power grid

3241
02:00:41,910 --> 02:00:39,520
vulnerable to long-term outages from a

3242
02:00:43,510 --> 02:00:41,920
single cyber attack when the chaos from

3243
02:00:45,589 --> 02:00:43,520
any one of these threats arises the

3244
02:00:47,910 --> 02:00:45,599
government knows it can't provide during

3245
02:00:49,510 --> 02:00:47,920
a widespread national emergency that's

3246
02:00:51,990 --> 02:00:49,520
why you need your own plan for

3247
02:00:54,629 --> 02:00:52,000
self-reliance that's where my patriot

3248
02:00:56,950 --> 02:00:54,639
supply comes in get a 4 week survival

3249
02:00:58,870 --> 02:00:56,960
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3250
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that includes breakfast lunches and

3251
02:01:02,709 --> 02:01:01,119
dinners order online at prepare with

3252
02:01:05,350 --> 02:01:02,719
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3253
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3254
02:01:09,910 --> 02:01:07,199
that tastes like homemade cooking and

3255
02:01:12,550 --> 02:01:09,920
lasts up to 25 years from my patriot

3256
02:01:15,510 --> 02:01:12,560
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3257
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3258
02:01:19,990 --> 02:01:18,480
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3259
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this is dan pillow do you have the irs

3260
02:01:23,750 --> 02:01:21,920
money you can't pay are tax debts

3261
02:01:26,070 --> 02:01:23,760
crippling you i've defended people from

3262
02:01:28,149 --> 02:01:26,080
the irs for over 30 years i've helped

3263
02:01:29,589 --> 02:01:28,159
thousands and i can help you too i wrote

3264
02:01:31,270 --> 02:01:29,599
the book on irs settlement and i'm

3265
02:01:34,950 --> 02:01:31,280
telling you there's no such thing as a

3266
02:01:37,189 --> 02:01:34,960
hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

3267
02:01:38,709 --> 02:01:37,199
get free of irs debt with the irs's new

3268
02:01:41,589 --> 02:01:38,719
programs there's never been a better

3269
02:01:45,430 --> 02:01:41,599
time to solve your problem call 834 no

3270
02:01:50,629 --> 02:01:45,440
tax that's 800 34 no tax or my website

3271
02:01:55,350 --> 02:01:52,950
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

3272
02:01:58,950 --> 02:01:55,360
comment or question about the paracast

3273
02:02:02,149 --> 02:01:58,960
send it to news at theparecast.com

3274
02:02:03,990 --> 02:02:02,159
that's news at theparacast.com

3275
02:02:06,470 --> 02:02:04,000
and don't forget to visit our famous

3276
02:02:10,790 --> 02:02:06,480
paracast community forums at

3277
02:02:14,550 --> 02:02:12,709
well you see what we brought

3278
02:02:17,350 --> 02:02:14,560
on this show with jean and chris and the

3279
02:02:19,430 --> 02:02:17,360
power cast and john stedman so for

3280
02:02:21,589 --> 02:02:19,440
people who want to get into this

3281
02:02:23,350 --> 02:02:21,599
what should they do to get started and

3282
02:02:25,350 --> 02:02:23,360
what are the limits

3283
02:02:26,470 --> 02:02:25,360
what should be done there to keep them

3284
02:02:28,070 --> 02:02:26,480
out of trouble

3285
02:02:29,830 --> 02:02:28,080
yeah you know i got to you guys are a

3286
02:02:31,669 --> 02:02:29,840
lot of fun you guys really have fun

3287
02:02:33,270 --> 02:02:31,679
doing this you i'm pretty sure your

3288
02:02:36,550 --> 02:02:33,280
listeners are having fun i mean you guys

3289
02:02:38,070 --> 02:02:36,560
are having fun and laughter and all

3290
02:02:39,669 --> 02:02:38,080
sorts of things going on that's great

3291
02:02:41,589 --> 02:02:39,679
this is what i want to suggest for those

3292
02:02:43,189 --> 02:02:41,599
people my grimoire is not out yet i'm

3293
02:02:44,790 --> 02:02:43,199
still in the process of adding and

3294
02:02:46,870 --> 02:02:44,800
that's for a little bit more advanced

3295
02:02:48,629 --> 02:02:46,880
students i think anybody could use those

3296
02:02:50,470 --> 02:02:48,639
rituals advantageously even if they're

3297
02:02:53,750 --> 02:02:50,480
not very well developed but if somebody

3298
02:02:56,470 --> 02:02:53,760
wants to start at a basic beginner level

3299
02:02:58,629 --> 02:02:56,480
and start learning to use these kinds of

3300
02:03:01,030 --> 02:02:58,639
forces or these kind of elements i can

3301
02:03:02,709 --> 02:03:01,040
only recommend one guy okay now i don't

3302
02:03:04,910 --> 02:03:02,719
know if his books are all in print yet

3303
02:03:07,510 --> 02:03:04,920
you can get him at lewell his name is

3304
02:03:09,990 --> 02:03:07,520
constantinos it's a greek name i don't

3305
02:03:12,950 --> 02:03:10,000
know what his real name is his name is

3306
02:03:14,390 --> 02:03:12,960
constantinos he's got a book called the

3307
02:03:15,910 --> 02:03:14,400
nocturnacon

3308
02:03:18,870 --> 02:03:15,920
he's got a book called the gothic

3309
02:03:22,149 --> 02:03:18,880
grimoire he's got a book called gothic

3310
02:03:24,229 --> 02:03:22,159
witchcraft and those books are great for

3311
02:03:26,950 --> 02:03:24,239
the beginner they take you into it real

3312
02:03:28,550 --> 02:03:26,960
slowly they don't go any farther and you

3313
02:03:30,470 --> 02:03:28,560
get a feel of what it's like to deal

3314
02:03:32,629 --> 02:03:30,480
with these types of forces and these

3315
02:03:34,790 --> 02:03:32,639
types of entities i would argue that if

3316
02:03:36,950 --> 02:03:34,800
you're actually sufficiently educated

3317
02:03:39,030 --> 02:03:36,960
and skilled you're not running any risk

3318
02:03:41,510 --> 02:03:39,040
whatsoever unless you mix up the planes

3319
02:03:43,669 --> 02:03:41,520
in some odd way but i would suggest

3320
02:03:45,510 --> 02:03:43,679
those books for the beginner

3321
02:03:48,070 --> 02:03:45,520
i won't suggest jumping right into the

3322
02:03:50,470 --> 02:03:48,080
necronomicon but i don't know no no no

3323
02:03:52,870 --> 02:03:50,480
there's way more kind of uh early

3324
02:03:54,950 --> 02:03:52,880
walk before you run uh research that

3325
02:03:57,830 --> 02:03:54,960
needs to be done once you've gone

3326
02:04:00,390 --> 02:03:57,840
through uh constantino says uh

3327
02:04:02,629 --> 02:04:00,400
one or two books there an another really

3328
02:04:04,149 --> 02:04:02,639
good uh tried and true classic is magic

3329
02:04:06,070 --> 02:04:04,159
and theory and practice by alistair

3330
02:04:07,669 --> 02:04:06,080
crowley it's a little dense it's a

3331
02:04:10,629 --> 02:04:07,679
little difficult to read

3332
02:04:12,870 --> 02:04:10,639
but in terms of presenting the very

3333
02:04:14,870 --> 02:04:12,880
basics about

3334
02:04:16,709 --> 02:04:14,880
magical traditions

3335
02:04:17,589 --> 02:04:16,719
why you would even consider doing some

3336
02:04:19,510 --> 02:04:17,599
sort of

3337
02:04:22,070 --> 02:04:19,520
real serious ritual everything we do in

3338
02:04:24,390 --> 02:04:22,080
our life we tie our shoes we answer the

3339
02:04:25,189 --> 02:04:24,400
phone it's all ritual it's just a matter

3340
02:04:28,229 --> 02:04:25,199
of

3341
02:04:30,709 --> 02:04:28,239
how much intent is has been encapsulated

3342
02:04:32,550 --> 02:04:30,719
behind the intent of the ritual

3343
02:04:35,589 --> 02:04:32,560
magic and theory and practice is a very

3344
02:04:37,910 --> 02:04:35,599
good book also dion fortune for people

3345
02:04:39,830 --> 02:04:37,920
that want to slide into it more maybe in

3346
02:04:43,750 --> 02:04:39,840
a fictional realm she wrote quite a

3347
02:04:46,790 --> 02:04:43,760
number of novels and as did crowley

3348
02:04:49,189 --> 02:04:46,800
about neophytes getting involved in in

3349
02:04:50,950 --> 02:04:49,199
serious magical traditions so you know

3350
02:04:53,430 --> 02:04:50,960
there's more than one way to approach it

3351
02:04:55,350 --> 02:04:53,440
but you really really make sure that

3352
02:04:56,950 --> 02:04:55,360
your motives are pure and your means are

3353
02:04:58,550 --> 02:04:56,960
correct

3354
02:04:59,990 --> 02:04:58,560
yeah well those books are all good like

3355
02:05:02,229 --> 02:05:00,000
the moon child is a good one that's

3356
02:05:04,149 --> 02:05:02,239
crowley's novel very good action that

3357
02:05:06,310 --> 02:05:04,159
does a great portrayal of how to conjure

3358
02:05:07,910 --> 02:05:06,320
up entities got cyril grey conjuring

3359
02:05:10,390 --> 02:05:07,920
that empty in the garden and then that

3360
02:05:11,669 --> 02:05:10,400
wonderful ritual that uh brother no

3361
02:05:13,990 --> 02:05:11,679
fried oh i don't know how his name is

3362
02:05:15,669 --> 02:05:14,000
pronounced it does later on how they're

3363
02:05:17,669 --> 02:05:15,679
trying to get a spirit to kind of

3364
02:05:19,270 --> 02:05:17,679
incarnate in a woman that's a very good

3365
02:05:20,790 --> 02:05:19,280
but magic and theory and practice i

3366
02:05:22,310 --> 02:05:20,800
remember people used to say the same

3367
02:05:24,470 --> 02:05:22,320
thing about that book they did about

3368
02:05:25,910 --> 02:05:24,480
simon there's all sorts of pitfalls but

3369
02:05:27,589 --> 02:05:25,920
there are some very useful rituals and

3370
02:05:29,030 --> 02:05:27,599
they're those banishing rituals of the

3371
02:05:31,510 --> 02:05:29,040
pentagon

3372
02:05:37,830 --> 02:05:31,520
the lesser banishing richard the lbr

3373
02:05:41,270 --> 02:05:39,510
the phoenix you know eating the body and

3374
02:05:43,510 --> 02:05:41,280
blood of some kind god that's always

3375
02:05:45,030 --> 02:05:43,520
useful the catholics do it every sunday

3376
02:05:47,350 --> 02:05:45,040
you know so you could use the mass of

3377
02:05:49,189 --> 02:05:47,360
the phoenix if the star ruby rituals

3378
02:05:52,149 --> 02:05:49,199
real good so there's a lot of cool stuff

3379
02:05:53,750 --> 02:05:52,159
and he's got his own evocation of the uh

3380
02:05:55,109 --> 02:05:53,760
holy guardian angel in there too you

3381
02:05:56,709 --> 02:05:55,119
know so it's got a lot of interesting

3382
02:05:58,550 --> 02:05:56,719
rituals i don't think there's any

3383
02:06:00,550 --> 02:05:58,560
pitfalls or any hidden traps in that

3384
02:06:02,390 --> 02:06:00,560
like some occults have claimed no i

3385
02:06:04,310 --> 02:06:02,400
think it's just the writing style it's

3386
02:06:05,910 --> 02:06:04,320
the actual you know the end of the

3387
02:06:07,750 --> 02:06:05,920
victorian age where he was really trying

3388
02:06:09,750 --> 02:06:07,760
to impress people with his

3389
02:06:11,270 --> 02:06:09,760
intellectual knowledge and his verbosity

3390
02:06:13,669 --> 02:06:11,280
and at the same time he was actually

3391
02:06:15,430 --> 02:06:13,679
trying to to create something fairly

3392
02:06:17,189 --> 02:06:15,440
basic and fundamental for people to

3393
02:06:19,990 --> 02:06:17,199
become you know

3394
02:06:21,510 --> 02:06:20,000
initially exposed to uh the golden dawn

3395
02:06:23,270 --> 02:06:21,520
system of magic which is which is

3396
02:06:24,950 --> 02:06:23,280
basically what we're talking about here

3397
02:06:26,629 --> 02:06:24,960
that's another good book if you can find

3398
02:06:28,709 --> 02:06:26,639
it israel regardies you know the

3399
02:06:30,629 --> 02:06:28,719
complete golden dawn system of magic

3400
02:06:32,790 --> 02:06:30,639
which is a little difficult to find but

3401
02:06:34,310 --> 02:06:32,800
boy i'll tell you that's

3402
02:06:36,229 --> 02:06:34,320
if you have any sort of interest in

3403
02:06:37,830 --> 02:06:36,239
these subjects if you read that one

3404
02:06:39,350 --> 02:06:37,840
you'll see crowley stole all of his

3405
02:06:41,109 --> 02:06:39,360
rituals from the golden dawn what he did

3406
02:06:43,109 --> 02:06:41,119
is he streamlined him but they're all

3407
02:06:44,950 --> 02:06:43,119
basically in that golden dawn book you

3408
02:06:46,550 --> 02:06:44,960
know so he stole it all he broke his

3409
02:06:48,069 --> 02:06:46,560
oath he took an oath when he went to the

3410
02:06:49,910 --> 02:06:48,079
golden dawn they wasn't going to reveal

3411
02:06:51,750 --> 02:06:49,920
any of that stuff first thing he did

3412
02:06:54,149 --> 02:06:51,760
when he saw the order he revealed it all

3413
02:06:56,069 --> 02:06:54,159
in the equinox the volumes by the way i

3414
02:06:57,750 --> 02:06:56,079
got two sets of those but back in the

3415
02:07:00,069 --> 02:06:57,760
old days when it was samuel weisser i

3416
02:07:02,149 --> 02:07:00,079
bought two sets of the equinox i got one

3417
02:07:03,990 --> 02:07:02,159
clean copy that i never touched it's

3418
02:07:06,310 --> 02:07:04,000
just like minted gold and then the other

3419
02:07:08,550 --> 02:07:06,320
one i've got notes and stuff in those

3420
02:07:10,149 --> 02:07:08,560
books are all good i think people should

3421
02:07:11,589 --> 02:07:10,159
experiment with these things you know

3422
02:07:12,390 --> 02:07:11,599
they shouldn't be afraid to do it but

3423
02:07:14,390 --> 02:07:12,400
they should

3424
02:07:16,229 --> 02:07:14,400
try and get themselves as

3425
02:07:18,310 --> 02:07:16,239
intellectualized as possible and they

3426
02:07:20,390 --> 02:07:18,320
should try and deepen their ability to

3427
02:07:22,550 --> 02:07:20,400
do things like astral traveling and then

3428
02:07:25,750 --> 02:07:22,560
basic rituals before they start jumping

3429
02:07:27,109 --> 02:07:25,760
in it takes a lot of work

3430
02:07:29,589 --> 02:07:27,119
in terms of just

3431
02:07:31,990 --> 02:07:29,599
bringing yourself up to speed

3432
02:07:35,189 --> 02:07:32,000
it's an incredibly complex

3433
02:07:38,390 --> 02:07:35,199
subject and this is definitely it would

3434
02:07:40,870 --> 02:07:38,400
be advisable to really do some research

3435
02:07:43,910 --> 02:07:40,880
get yourself up to speed you know take

3436
02:07:46,229 --> 02:07:43,920
baby steps start start small don't try

3437
02:07:48,790 --> 02:07:46,239
to bite off more than you can chew

3438
02:07:51,669 --> 02:07:48,800
for obvious reasons i think

3439
02:07:53,669 --> 02:07:51,679
as john as you mentioned before it's

3440
02:07:55,589 --> 02:07:53,679
it's people attempting to to bite off

3441
02:07:56,870 --> 02:07:55,599
more than they can chew and then ending

3442
02:07:57,669 --> 02:07:56,880
up dealing with something that they

3443
02:07:59,510 --> 02:07:57,679
really

3444
02:08:01,109 --> 02:07:59,520
have no business being in a position to

3445
02:08:02,870 --> 02:08:01,119
have to deal with yeah but you know

3446
02:08:05,750 --> 02:08:02,880
that's a human thing remember back in

3447
02:08:08,870 --> 02:08:05,760
the 30s a bride of frankenstein you have

3448
02:08:10,550 --> 02:08:08,880
like frankenstein's wife saying oh henry

3449
02:08:12,390 --> 02:08:10,560
we are not meant to deal with these kind

3450
02:08:14,390 --> 02:08:12,400
of things you know that's a standard

3451
02:08:15,910 --> 02:08:14,400
human reaction and in the end the moral

3452
02:08:17,430 --> 02:08:15,920
is well we better leave these things

3453
02:08:18,870 --> 02:08:17,440
alone go to church you know because we

3454
02:08:21,109 --> 02:08:18,880
shouldn't deal with and you know they're

3455
02:08:24,390 --> 02:08:21,119
still playing that tired old theme right

3456
02:08:26,229 --> 02:08:24,400
now take baby steps no no i'm not saying

3457
02:08:28,310 --> 02:08:26,239
you know turn your back on on the

3458
02:08:30,550 --> 02:08:28,320
subject matter i mean this is very very

3459
02:08:32,870 --> 02:08:30,560
controversial belief system to even be

3460
02:08:36,149 --> 02:08:32,880
talking about uh on talk radio in this

3461
02:08:38,149 --> 02:08:36,159
country uh in this day and age but uh i

3462
02:08:41,669 --> 02:08:38,159
think taking baby steps

3463
02:08:43,669 --> 02:08:41,679
becoming informed finding a system or an

3464
02:08:45,430 --> 02:08:43,679
approach that that seems to kind of

3465
02:08:47,669 --> 02:08:45,440
resonate with you that you

3466
02:08:48,790 --> 02:08:47,679
you feel a connection with because

3467
02:08:50,709 --> 02:08:48,800
there's there's

3468
02:08:51,750 --> 02:08:50,719
more than a few ways to skin the cat so

3469
02:08:53,510 --> 02:08:51,760
to speak

3470
02:08:55,030 --> 02:08:53,520
even in popular culture you know they're

3471
02:08:56,310 --> 02:08:55,040
right back to the frankenstein thing you

3472
02:08:57,510 --> 02:08:56,320
know that we shouldn't meddle in these

3473
02:08:59,430 --> 02:08:57,520
kind of things and of course all the

3474
02:09:01,189 --> 02:08:59,440
religious people so you we're on this

3475
02:09:02,950 --> 02:09:01,199
show right here so we're not members of

3476
02:09:04,390 --> 02:09:02,960
that group so you're talking to people

3477
02:09:05,830 --> 02:09:04,400
that aren't members of the group too but

3478
02:09:07,589 --> 02:09:05,840
the majority of people out there and

3479
02:09:09,030 --> 02:09:07,599
that's where what fuels these movies

3480
02:09:10,550 --> 02:09:09,040
you're talking about you got young

3481
02:09:11,830 --> 02:09:10,560
people they're messing around with

3482
02:09:13,589 --> 02:09:11,840
things they shouldn't mess around with

3483
02:09:14,870 --> 02:09:13,599
and they get their just results you know

3484
02:09:17,270 --> 02:09:14,880
that thing is still with us

3485
02:09:18,790 --> 02:09:17,280
unfortunately you know so

3486
02:09:20,629 --> 02:09:18,800
i think what we can do is help the

3487
02:09:22,069 --> 02:09:20,639
people have always stepped beyond that a

3488
02:09:24,229 --> 02:09:22,079
little bit and i think you're right the

3489
02:09:25,030 --> 02:09:24,239
baby steps is probably the best way to

3490
02:09:26,629 --> 02:09:25,040
go

3491
02:09:29,109 --> 02:09:26,639
you should mention of course in the real

3492
02:09:31,030 --> 02:09:29,119
world the fate of the guy who played

3493
02:09:33,109 --> 02:09:31,040
henry frankenstein in the bride of

3494
02:09:34,470 --> 02:09:33,119
frankenstein frankenstein

3495
02:09:36,950 --> 02:09:34,480
two years after the bride of

3496
02:09:38,229 --> 02:09:36,960
frankenstein colin clive

3497
02:09:40,149 --> 02:09:38,239
died

3498
02:09:41,990 --> 02:09:40,159
and he was an alcoholic and he also

3499
02:09:44,069 --> 02:09:42,000
suffered from tuberculosis and the guy

3500
02:09:46,390 --> 02:09:44,079
must have been in his 30s i don't think

3501
02:09:48,310 --> 02:09:46,400
it's because he he was a very troubled

3502
02:09:51,990 --> 02:09:48,320
guy i mean he was obviously a brilliant

3503
02:09:53,910 --> 02:09:52,000
actor but a really really troubled

3504
02:09:56,390 --> 02:09:53,920
was i've read i've read about his life

3505
02:09:57,669 --> 02:09:56,400
you know he uh was a terrible alcoholic

3506
02:09:59,430 --> 02:09:57,679
he was just on the verge of getting

3507
02:10:01,990 --> 02:09:59,440
worse when he was in that movie but he

3508
02:10:04,470 --> 02:10:02,000
was a very high strung kind of a person

3509
02:10:07,270 --> 02:10:04,480
to uh the guy that directed those movies

3510
02:10:10,149 --> 02:10:07,280
of course uh james james whale he

3511
02:10:12,149 --> 02:10:10,159
actually had done he'd had uh colin

3512
02:10:13,669 --> 02:10:12,159
klein working at play with him before

3513
02:10:15,189 --> 02:10:13,679
you know so he liked the guy he liked

3514
02:10:16,950 --> 02:10:15,199
how high strong he was you know but he

3515
02:10:19,189 --> 02:10:16,960
would use anybody to get the best on but

3516
02:10:21,669 --> 02:10:19,199
you're right he died very shortly after

3517
02:10:23,990 --> 02:10:21,679
that at a very young age

3518
02:10:24,950 --> 02:10:24,000
we've got more to come guys

3519
02:10:28,470 --> 02:10:24,960
we have

3520
02:10:38,610 --> 02:10:28,480
john stedman with gene and chris you're

3521
02:10:43,189 --> 02:10:39,669
[Applause]

3522
02:10:44,510 --> 02:10:43,199
thank you for listening to gcn

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your debt now call national debt relief

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3622
02:14:59,270 --> 02:14:56,790
hey this is marie d jones the author of

3623
02:15:01,910 --> 02:14:59,280
this book is from the future

3624
02:15:13,350 --> 02:15:01,920
and you are listening to the paracast

3625
02:15:16,390 --> 02:15:15,350
remember when they had bought it from

3626
02:15:17,910 --> 02:15:16,400
bella

3627
02:15:20,069 --> 02:15:17,920
a minute ago

3628
02:15:22,629 --> 02:15:20,079
and in those days when karloff and

3629
02:15:25,589 --> 02:15:22,639
lugosi teamed up in movies it wasn't

3630
02:15:28,390 --> 02:15:25,599
boris karloff it was just karloff

3631
02:15:30,470 --> 02:15:28,400
yeah he actually eclipsed uh bella

3632
02:15:32,629 --> 02:15:30,480
lugosi completely you know he'd always

3633
02:15:34,390 --> 02:15:32,639
get first billing it was always karloff

3634
02:15:37,430 --> 02:15:34,400
and then right under him in smaller font

3635
02:15:42,870 --> 02:15:40,149
history as we all remember and that film

3636
02:15:44,229 --> 02:15:42,880
wasn't ed wood shows bella lugosi in his

3637
02:15:46,629 --> 02:15:44,239
final years

3638
02:15:49,189 --> 02:15:46,639
where he recovered from his addiction to

3639
02:15:51,830 --> 02:15:49,199
painkillers because of a back problem

3640
02:15:53,990 --> 02:15:51,840
and then he appeared in these

3641
02:15:55,910 --> 02:15:54,000
nothing films for his final years yeah

3642
02:15:57,750 --> 02:15:55,920
but you know what something about lugosi

3643
02:15:59,750 --> 02:15:57,760
he was working you know i mean he wasn't

3644
02:16:01,189 --> 02:15:59,760
making a lot of money but he was working

3645
02:16:03,430 --> 02:16:01,199
consistently he might have been those

3646
02:16:05,910 --> 02:16:03,440
poverty role pictures and stuff but the

3647
02:16:07,830 --> 02:16:05,920
man was working and his name was out

3648
02:16:09,669 --> 02:16:07,840
there he was out there so you know a lot

3649
02:16:10,950 --> 02:16:09,679
of times now but there's a lot of people

3650
02:16:13,270 --> 02:16:10,960
that actually put him a little bit

3651
02:16:14,870 --> 02:16:13,280
higher than uh karloff karloff was

3652
02:16:16,950 --> 02:16:14,880
certainly a better actor but some people

3653
02:16:19,189 --> 02:16:16,960
put lugosi high because he has just this

3654
02:16:21,990 --> 02:16:19,199
manic demonic

3655
02:16:25,109 --> 02:16:22,000
whatever persona about it name the one

3656
02:16:27,669 --> 02:16:25,119
movie or series of movies actually that

3657
02:16:28,709 --> 02:16:27,679
lugosi played a romantic lead and the

3658
02:16:31,589 --> 02:16:28,719
hero

3659
02:16:34,230 --> 02:16:31,599
he only did one okay well let's see that

3660
02:16:37,990 --> 02:16:34,240
was uh oh boy see what's happening here

3661
02:16:41,509 --> 02:16:39,910
ever play a hero

3662
02:16:43,030 --> 02:16:41,519
i'm thinking of my favorite one which

3663
02:16:44,870 --> 02:16:43,040
would be the black cat of course but i'm

3664
02:16:46,950 --> 02:16:44,880
trying to think if he was ever fully the

3665
02:16:49,429 --> 02:16:46,960
hero well the black cat he was kind of a

3666
02:16:50,950 --> 02:16:49,439
hero yes

3667
02:16:53,190 --> 02:16:50,960
was really the villain

3668
02:16:55,750 --> 02:16:53,200
yeah and then uh one they gave him

3669
02:16:56,549 --> 02:16:55,760
primacy in that other movie too but paul

3670
02:16:58,150 --> 02:16:56,559
won

3671
02:17:00,469 --> 02:16:58,160
the rave and they gave him primacy and

3672
02:17:01,990 --> 02:17:00,479
that one over also the invisible ray

3673
02:17:04,070 --> 02:17:02,000
remember that where they developed this

3674
02:17:07,669 --> 02:17:04,080
device

3675
02:17:10,549 --> 02:17:07,679
and karloff once again was the bad guy

3676
02:17:12,389 --> 02:17:10,559
right and i believe lugosi was

3677
02:17:13,110 --> 02:17:12,399
the kindly one there i mean you could

3678
02:17:15,509 --> 02:17:13,120
see

3679
02:17:18,230 --> 02:17:15,519
this he was a pretty good actor because

3680
02:17:20,549 --> 02:17:18,240
he could play the role of kind of a

3681
02:17:23,509 --> 02:17:20,559
father figure and he'd be very kind and

3682
02:17:26,629 --> 02:17:23,519
very gentle and then he'd be a monster

3683
02:17:33,429 --> 02:17:26,639
he played igor too or igor i say igor

3684
02:17:38,549 --> 02:17:35,669
frankenstein you know so he was a pretty

3685
02:17:41,190 --> 02:17:38,559
good actor he was reduced though by the

3686
02:17:43,750 --> 02:17:41,200
time they had what was it the first

3687
02:17:45,270 --> 02:17:43,760
frankenstein and the wolf man where the

3688
02:17:46,549 --> 02:17:45,280
frankenstein monster was played by

3689
02:17:48,870 --> 02:17:46,559
lugosi

3690
02:17:51,509 --> 02:17:48,880
he was reduced to that where he would be

3691
02:17:53,110 --> 02:17:51,519
a voiceless monster yeah and it was a

3692
02:17:54,950 --> 02:17:53,120
shame too because they gave him a script

3693
02:17:56,950 --> 02:17:54,960
to that movie and they told him the

3694
02:17:58,950 --> 02:17:56,960
frankenstein monster was blind and so he

3695
02:18:00,629 --> 02:17:58,960
played it like it was a blind monster

3696
02:18:01,750 --> 02:18:00,639
and then they kept that conveniently

3697
02:18:03,349 --> 02:18:01,760
quiet and then when the movie was

3698
02:18:05,429 --> 02:18:03,359
released they said look at legos he's

3699
02:18:07,110 --> 02:18:05,439
overacting he's a terrible actor he was

3700
02:18:08,549 --> 02:18:07,120
actually trying to act like the monster

3701
02:18:11,030 --> 02:18:08,559
was blind he couldn't see what he was

3702
02:18:13,910 --> 02:18:11,040
doing you're kidding that is that's true

3703
02:18:15,509 --> 02:18:13,920
yes i remember that oh man

3704
02:18:17,429 --> 02:18:15,519
they set them up for that you know they

3705
02:18:19,110 --> 02:18:17,439
set them up for that and then later on

3706
02:18:21,030 --> 02:18:19,120
they had john kerrigan who actually

3707
02:18:23,110 --> 02:18:21,040
looks like bram stoker's version of

3708
02:18:24,790 --> 02:18:23,120
dracula a little bit more they had him

3709
02:18:25,990 --> 02:18:24,800
play the dragon but carradine the rest

3710
02:18:28,709 --> 02:18:26,000
of these actors they just didn't have

3711
02:18:30,790 --> 02:18:28,719
that manic intensity that lugosi had

3712
02:18:32,709 --> 02:18:30,800
and lugosi got a chance again with ebb

3713
02:18:35,349 --> 02:18:32,719
and costello meet frankenstein to play

3714
02:18:39,110 --> 02:18:36,950
and the monster was played in those

3715
02:18:41,349 --> 02:18:39,120
final films after costello meet

3716
02:18:43,830 --> 02:18:41,359
frankenstein house of dracula house of

3717
02:18:45,030 --> 02:18:43,840
frankenstein by an actor named glenn

3718
02:18:46,790 --> 02:18:45,040
strange

3719
02:18:49,190 --> 02:18:46,800
yeah and those of you who remember tv

3720
02:18:52,070 --> 02:18:49,200
trivia on gun smoke he played the

3721
02:18:57,349 --> 02:18:52,080
bartender oh really i didn't know that

3722
02:19:00,150 --> 02:18:58,150
yeah

3723
02:19:01,990 --> 02:19:00,160
all right we're running out of time here

3724
02:19:04,709 --> 02:19:02,000
we need to go to uh

3725
02:19:06,790 --> 02:19:04,719
one of our favorite questioners marduk

3726
02:19:10,629 --> 02:19:06,800
who's been quelling chaos in uh on the

3727
02:19:12,549 --> 02:19:10,639
planet since uh 2352 bc

3728
02:19:14,870 --> 02:19:12,559
we haven't seen him out out of the

3729
02:19:16,469 --> 02:19:14,880
woodwork here very much lately but but

3730
02:19:21,190 --> 02:19:16,479
you brought him out john

3731
02:19:23,030 --> 02:19:21,200
and he is curious if you have read

3732
02:19:24,230 --> 02:19:23,040
any of the thousands of letters

3733
02:19:25,910 --> 02:19:24,240
lovecraft

3734
02:19:28,070 --> 02:19:25,920
wrote to other authors as they

3735
02:19:29,349 --> 02:19:28,080
intentionally co-created the so-called

3736
02:19:31,110 --> 02:19:29,359
mythos

3737
02:19:32,709 --> 02:19:31,120
as fiction yeah you know

3738
02:19:35,669 --> 02:19:32,719
something you know i'm a scholar of

3739
02:19:37,750 --> 02:19:35,679
lovecraft and i i write not only the

3740
02:19:39,030 --> 02:19:37,760
books i've got my second book out now

3741
02:19:41,589 --> 02:19:39,040
the i don't know when they're going to

3742
02:19:43,429 --> 02:19:41,599
announce that but i've written various

3743
02:19:45,030 --> 02:19:43,439
articles too about lovecraft you have to

3744
02:19:46,549 --> 02:19:45,040
actually read every single one of those

3745
02:19:49,510 --> 02:19:46,559
letters in order to be an appropriate

3746
02:19:51,910 --> 02:19:49,520
guy i've read every single letter five

3747
02:19:54,070 --> 02:19:51,920
volumes arkham house i've read every one

3748
02:19:55,830 --> 02:19:54,080
of them you know so yeah what martic is

3749
02:19:58,550 --> 02:19:55,840
saying is you can actually chart the

3750
02:20:01,030 --> 02:19:58,560
progression of the necronomicon as a

3751
02:20:02,710 --> 02:20:01,040
macguffin for example where they

3752
02:20:05,990 --> 02:20:02,720
actually discuss and joke about people

3753
02:20:07,990 --> 02:20:06,000
believing in their fiction in this way

3754
02:20:09,910 --> 02:20:08,000
he's wondering okay well let's let's

3755
02:20:11,670 --> 02:20:09,920
talk about that first and then

3756
02:20:14,150 --> 02:20:11,680
he's wondering about you know what's the

3757
02:20:16,230 --> 02:20:14,160
point basically the necronomicon is a

3758
02:20:18,790 --> 02:20:16,240
fictional document lovecraft guy

3759
02:20:20,630 --> 02:20:18,800
stumbles on by accident you know when he

3760
02:20:22,070 --> 02:20:20,640
was a young kid he pretended like he was

3761
02:20:24,070 --> 02:20:22,080
an arab prince or something like that he

3762
02:20:27,030 --> 02:20:24,080
read the arabian nights he came up with

3763
02:20:29,270 --> 02:20:27,040
the idea of abdul hazrat abdul hazrah is

3764
02:20:31,190 --> 02:20:29,280
not phonetically a real name you know he

3765
02:20:33,510 --> 02:20:31,200
just came up with a name and they kind

3766
02:20:35,349 --> 02:20:33,520
of came along with the book of spells

3767
02:20:36,630 --> 02:20:35,359
and that was a necronomicon they created

3768
02:20:38,870 --> 02:20:36,640
this kind of pseudo-history of the

3769
02:20:41,030 --> 02:20:38,880
necronomicon when it was first

3770
02:20:42,070 --> 02:20:41,040
compiled and then different translations

3771
02:20:43,830 --> 02:20:42,080
of it over the years but it's a

3772
02:20:45,510 --> 02:20:43,840
fictional book and they none of them

3773
02:20:47,750 --> 02:20:45,520
took it seriously they didn't take the

3774
02:20:49,349 --> 02:20:47,760
myth so seriously you know they all knew

3775
02:20:51,270 --> 02:20:49,359
it was a fictional book and lovecraft

3776
02:20:52,870 --> 02:20:51,280
liked it if they worked it into their

3777
02:20:54,790 --> 02:20:52,880
stories he liked it if they worked in

3778
02:20:56,309 --> 02:20:54,800
some of his entities and he would work

3779
02:20:58,950 --> 02:20:56,319
in their entities too but it was just a

3780
02:21:00,950 --> 02:20:58,960
big game it was a joke they would trade

3781
02:21:02,790 --> 02:21:00,960
stories with each other and and

3782
02:21:04,309 --> 02:21:02,800
sometimes he'd do revision works and he

3783
02:21:06,309 --> 02:21:04,319
put some of his things and so it's just

3784
02:21:07,990 --> 02:21:06,319
all fun it was all just fun and games to

3785
02:21:10,070 --> 02:21:08,000
them they weren't trying to actually

3786
02:21:11,670 --> 02:21:10,080
create anything serious here in fact

3787
02:21:13,750 --> 02:21:11,680
lovecraft called his work he didn't call

3788
02:21:16,389 --> 02:21:13,760
the cthulhu mythos by the way he called

3789
02:21:18,550 --> 02:21:16,399
it yog-sothory he said i wonder if

3790
02:21:20,469 --> 02:21:18,560
anybody will ever take my yogg saw three

3791
02:21:22,150 --> 02:21:20,479
series he thought it was funny you know

3792
02:21:23,670 --> 02:21:22,160
the whole thing was human right it was

3793
02:21:26,550 --> 02:21:23,680
kind of like a

3794
02:21:29,190 --> 02:21:26,560
nerdy joke really yeah amongst

3795
02:21:32,870 --> 02:21:29,200
himself and his his real cutting edge

3796
02:21:37,830 --> 02:21:35,830
he wasn't robert howard

3797
02:21:39,910 --> 02:21:37,840
all those crazy guys durleth robert

3798
02:21:41,590 --> 02:21:39,920
howard clark aston smith robert block

3799
02:21:43,429 --> 02:21:41,600
was involved in it for a time it was

3800
02:21:45,030 --> 02:21:43,439
just a fun game you know sometimes

3801
02:21:46,550 --> 02:21:45,040
they'd visit each other in person but

3802
02:21:48,469 --> 02:21:46,560
most of the time was just all handled

3803
02:21:50,469 --> 02:21:48,479
with correspondence and they were having

3804
02:21:52,070 --> 02:21:50,479
a great old time that's how lovecraft

3805
02:21:53,990 --> 02:21:52,080
was comfortable he was more comfortable

3806
02:21:56,230 --> 02:21:54,000
writing letters and dealing with people

3807
02:21:57,910 --> 02:21:56,240
that way than he was actually face to

3808
02:21:59,990 --> 02:21:57,920
face that was his preferred method of

3809
02:22:01,590 --> 02:22:00,000
communication so he didn't go out there

3810
02:22:03,429 --> 02:22:01,600
and do book signings

3811
02:22:04,790 --> 02:22:03,439
no he didn't do any book science and he

3812
02:22:06,550 --> 02:22:04,800
plus he thought when he died he thought

3813
02:22:08,389 --> 02:22:06,560
he was a complete failure okay he

3814
02:22:10,309 --> 02:22:08,399
thought it was a complete failure a lot

3815
02:22:12,309 --> 02:22:10,319
of his best things had been rejected by

3816
02:22:14,070 --> 02:22:12,319
weird tales that was his only market he

3817
02:22:15,990 --> 02:22:14,080
couldn't get a hardcover book in print

3818
02:22:17,349 --> 02:22:16,000
he got a couple stories to appear in

3819
02:22:20,950 --> 02:22:17,359
anthology but he thought he was a

3820
02:22:23,030 --> 02:22:20,960
complete failure when he died he was 47

3821
02:22:25,830 --> 02:22:23,040
when he died yeah

3822
02:22:27,990 --> 02:22:25,840
yeah but he had gone downhill for

3823
02:22:29,750 --> 02:22:28,000
actually quite a bit of time before that

3824
02:22:31,590 --> 02:22:29,760
when he turned 40 then things really

3825
02:22:32,950 --> 02:22:31,600
started to go downhill for him

3826
02:22:34,389 --> 02:22:32,960
psychologically

3827
02:22:36,309 --> 02:22:34,399
he wasn't taking care of himself

3828
02:22:38,870 --> 02:22:36,319
physically you know he was relying on

3829
02:22:40,550 --> 02:22:38,880
canned food and stuff and secondary food

3830
02:22:42,389 --> 02:22:40,560
he'd never made a lot of money so he

3831
02:22:44,870 --> 02:22:42,399
would actually pride himself on not

3832
02:22:47,910 --> 02:22:44,880
spending too much on food and that kind

3833
02:22:49,590 --> 02:22:47,920
of contribute to his his bad health too

3834
02:22:51,190 --> 02:22:49,600
and stuff but he he thought he was a

3835
02:22:53,990 --> 02:22:51,200
complete failure if he could come alive

3836
02:22:55,670 --> 02:22:54,000
today he'd be amazed at the stature that

3837
02:22:57,670 --> 02:22:55,680
he'd achieved and also he'd be a little

3838
02:22:59,429 --> 02:22:57,680
bit richer too which would be nice for

3839
02:23:01,510 --> 02:22:59,439
him i think isn't that strange how many

3840
02:23:05,270 --> 02:23:01,520
dead people are out there who

3841
02:23:07,990 --> 02:23:05,280
were authors or painters or in film and

3842
02:23:09,429 --> 02:23:08,000
music and after they die they are

3843
02:23:12,230 --> 02:23:09,439
discovered

3844
02:23:13,990 --> 02:23:12,240
and people make millions of dollars

3845
02:23:15,190 --> 02:23:14,000
painting to his brother

3846
02:23:20,230 --> 02:23:15,200
excuse me

3847
02:23:25,270 --> 02:23:23,670
yeah van gogh he only sold one painting

3848
02:23:26,150 --> 02:23:25,280
during his lifetime and that was to his

3849
02:23:27,510 --> 02:23:26,160
brother

3850
02:23:29,750 --> 02:23:27,520
uh who did it

3851
02:23:31,590 --> 02:23:29,760
basically just so you know to kind of

3852
02:23:34,710 --> 02:23:31,600
because he felt sorry for his for the

3853
02:23:37,830 --> 02:23:36,309
at least he sold one

3854
02:23:39,670 --> 02:23:37,840
you know at least he saw like edgar

3855
02:23:41,349 --> 02:23:39,680
allen poe he died in pretty uh

3856
02:23:43,270 --> 02:23:41,359
horrendous circumstance too but at least

3857
02:23:45,110 --> 02:23:43,280
he'd gone a little bit of fame he had a

3858
02:23:47,030 --> 02:23:45,120
couple books on the raven actually got

3859
02:23:48,389 --> 02:23:47,040
him some fame and a gold bug you know so

3860
02:23:49,910 --> 02:23:48,399
a lot of them had that but lovecraft

3861
02:23:51,349 --> 02:23:49,920
didn't even have that

3862
02:23:53,510 --> 02:23:51,359
you know one of his friends was trying

3863
02:23:55,910 --> 02:23:53,520
to put together the shadow over in

3864
02:23:57,349 --> 02:23:55,920
smooth in book form and it just never

3865
02:23:58,710 --> 02:23:57,359
came together and

3866
02:24:00,870 --> 02:23:58,720
you know love christ well he lived with

3867
02:24:02,070 --> 02:24:00,880
his mother didn't he or his sister or

3868
02:24:04,150 --> 02:24:02,080
somebody

3869
02:24:06,070 --> 02:24:04,160
his mother died when he was a little bit

3870
02:24:08,790 --> 02:24:06,080
younger and what he did was he moved in

3871
02:24:10,630 --> 02:24:08,800
with his aunts and he's that's right

3872
02:24:11,510 --> 02:24:10,640
yeah i mean the guy was really on his

3873
02:24:13,270 --> 02:24:11,520
own

3874
02:24:15,030 --> 02:24:13,280
hey guys we gotta do our break here

3875
02:24:15,910 --> 02:24:15,040
let's do our break and talk more about

3876
02:24:18,309 --> 02:24:15,920
this

3877
02:24:19,429 --> 02:24:18,319
with john stedman gene steinberg chris

3878
02:24:22,710 --> 02:24:19,439
o'brien

3879
02:24:26,980 --> 02:24:22,720
who has become a strange creature of the

3880
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[Music]

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3991
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that's it right i want to ask you before

3992
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3993
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3994
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you've been a busy bee with

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the next day there's a volume of new

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and then i forgot my uh my

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i also have finally come up with an e

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there's a nice e-version that has uh

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there's the entire database report after

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um so there's a bunch of good stuff in

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so once again that's our

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strangeplanet.com

4026
02:30:36,630 --> 02:30:34,080
all the new stuff from chris o'brien so

4027
02:30:38,790 --> 02:30:36,640
check it out great stuff

4028
02:30:40,550 --> 02:30:38,800
john you check it out too i'm going to

4029
02:30:41,590 --> 02:30:40,560
give you uh okay i want to give you a

4030
02:30:44,469 --> 02:30:41,600
homework

4031
02:30:46,790 --> 02:30:44,479
you're a teacher and you know about

4032
02:30:49,030 --> 02:30:46,800
giving people homework so i will give

4033
02:30:50,950 --> 02:30:49,040
you homework right now check out

4034
02:30:52,389 --> 02:30:50,960
ourstrangeplanet.com

4035
02:30:54,630 --> 02:30:52,399
chris do we have any more questions

4036
02:30:56,230 --> 02:30:54,640
before we wrap up for today

4037
02:31:01,510 --> 02:30:56,240
it's

4038
02:31:03,910 --> 02:31:01,520
kind of a joke from arctic again he says

4039
02:31:05,990 --> 02:31:03,920
oh another thought if the philip

4040
02:31:08,230 --> 02:31:06,000
experiment which you're going to have to

4041
02:31:09,990 --> 02:31:08,240
remind everybody what that is when i'm

4042
02:31:12,150 --> 02:31:10,000
done with the question here if the

4043
02:31:14,070 --> 02:31:12,160
philip experiment is irreplicable and

4044
02:31:15,670 --> 02:31:14,080
demonstrated the creation of a

4045
02:31:17,510 --> 02:31:15,680
paranormal creature

4046
02:31:19,510 --> 02:31:17,520
perhaps this is a way of creating a

4047
02:31:22,950 --> 02:31:19,520
real-life manifestation of the dreaded

4048
02:31:24,950 --> 02:31:22,960
cthulhu i'm a giant lovecraft fan and as

4049
02:31:26,870 --> 02:31:24,960
cool as that sounds i think that would

4050
02:31:28,550 --> 02:31:26,880
be a bad idea

4051
02:31:29,429 --> 02:31:28,560
you want my comment i don't think it's

4052
02:31:31,110 --> 02:31:29,439
bad

4053
02:31:32,550 --> 02:31:31,120
let's see what happens you should do

4054
02:31:34,870 --> 02:31:32,560
that

4055
02:31:36,870 --> 02:31:34,880
do i have a minute to plug some stuff

4056
02:31:38,790 --> 02:31:36,880
just plug a couple things let me just

4057
02:31:41,670 --> 02:31:38,800
turn on the electricity so you can plug

4058
02:31:43,349 --> 02:31:41,680
yourself in and get zapped let's

4059
02:31:45,590 --> 02:31:43,359
okay you got two minutes to plug go

4060
02:31:48,070 --> 02:31:45,600
ahead okay people should go to my

4061
02:31:49,830 --> 02:31:48,080
website john l stevens.com they'll tell

4062
02:31:52,150 --> 02:31:49,840
about all my events but i got a couple

4063
02:31:53,190 --> 02:31:52,160
events coming up just the carnival par

4064
02:31:56,309 --> 02:31:53,200
horror

4065
02:31:58,389 --> 02:31:56,319
in buffalo new york august 26th to 27th

4066
02:31:59,830 --> 02:31:58,399
i'm going to do a presentation there and

4067
02:32:02,710 --> 02:31:59,840
then do a book sign and then the

4068
02:32:05,349 --> 02:32:02,720
scarefest convention lexington kentucky

4069
02:32:07,349 --> 02:32:05,359
september 30th to october 1st i'm going

4070
02:32:09,110 --> 02:32:07,359
to do a presentation in book sign there

4071
02:32:11,110 --> 02:32:09,120
too people can always reach me on

4072
02:32:12,710 --> 02:32:11,120
facebook by the way so some of these

4073
02:32:14,309 --> 02:32:12,720
people i read and some of the other

4074
02:32:16,950 --> 02:32:14,319
people if they want to contact me on

4075
02:32:18,550 --> 02:32:16,960
facebook have them uh hook up with me

4076
02:32:19,990 --> 02:32:18,560
and i'll friend them or do whatever it

4077
02:32:21,510 --> 02:32:20,000
takes to get them in there and then if

4078
02:32:23,270 --> 02:32:21,520
they want to talk at length on any of

4079
02:32:25,030 --> 02:32:23,280
the things that we talked about i'll be

4080
02:32:26,630 --> 02:32:25,040
glad to do that you know so i love

4081
02:32:28,309 --> 02:32:26,640
talking about this stuff

4082
02:32:30,230 --> 02:32:28,319
we're not even going to charge you for

4083
02:32:32,790 --> 02:32:30,240
this okay well

4084
02:32:34,870 --> 02:32:32,800
i would say too to uh john to come to

4085
02:32:36,710 --> 02:32:34,880
our forum and there's going to be a

4086
02:32:38,950 --> 02:32:36,720
thread about the show

4087
02:32:40,150 --> 02:32:38,960
which will go off into the dozens and

4088
02:32:41,670 --> 02:32:40,160
dozens of

4089
02:32:43,670 --> 02:32:41,680
responses i'm sure

4090
02:32:45,510 --> 02:32:43,680
and so be great to have you involved in

4091
02:32:48,950 --> 02:32:45,520
that discussion as well

4092
02:32:51,510 --> 02:32:48,960
when does that happen the show goes live

4093
02:32:54,230 --> 02:32:51,520
on the morning of sunday

4094
02:32:55,590 --> 02:32:54,240
march 26th and it's heard on the 32

4095
02:32:57,830 --> 02:32:55,600
stations

4096
02:32:59,590 --> 02:32:57,840
carried by the gcn network after that it

4097
02:33:01,349 --> 02:32:59,600
goes up on itunes

4098
02:33:04,710 --> 02:33:01,359
and spread around the world is available

4099
02:33:06,469 --> 02:33:04,720
from our site at that point we post

4100
02:33:08,309 --> 02:33:06,479
a thread in our forums at

4101
02:33:09,750 --> 02:33:08,319
forum.powercast.com

4102
02:33:11,590 --> 02:33:09,760
and that's where listeners can comment

4103
02:33:14,469 --> 02:33:11,600
about the show they can ask questions

4104
02:33:18,790 --> 02:33:14,479
and you'll see if you look at the forum

4105
02:33:20,230 --> 02:33:18,800
quite often authors drop in there

4106
02:33:21,590 --> 02:33:20,240
in fact for those of you who are

4107
02:33:24,389 --> 02:33:21,600
wondering we've got a really great

4108
02:33:26,309 --> 02:33:24,399
thread right now featuring arch ufo

4109
02:33:28,630 --> 02:33:26,319
skeptic jim oberg

4110
02:33:30,710 --> 02:33:28,640
and he's been extremely extremely active

4111
02:33:33,110 --> 02:33:30,720
in our forms neighbors so you want to

4112
02:33:34,710 --> 02:33:33,120
check that out so yeah john you want to

4113
02:33:36,469 --> 02:33:34,720
do that

4114
02:33:38,630 --> 02:33:36,479
i'm writing this down now the forum will

4115
02:33:40,950 --> 02:33:38,640
start like after the 26th right right

4116
02:33:42,790 --> 02:33:40,960
well i send you the link to the show

4117
02:33:45,190 --> 02:33:42,800
and i'll email it to you

4118
02:33:46,870 --> 02:33:45,200
at that point you can go to the forum

4119
02:33:48,710 --> 02:33:46,880
and there'll be a place there where you

4120
02:33:50,469 --> 02:33:48,720
can see people give me all the

4121
02:33:53,110 --> 02:33:50,479
instructions about when you email me

4122
02:33:54,710 --> 02:33:53,120
okay so that i can get to it and i'll be

4123
02:33:56,710 --> 02:33:54,720
glad to take part in that i'd like to

4124
02:33:58,790 --> 02:33:56,720
continue my discussion on some of these

4125
02:34:00,070 --> 02:33:58,800
issues and i'd like to talk more at

4126
02:34:01,670 --> 02:34:00,080
length and some of these people they

4127
02:34:03,190 --> 02:34:01,680
really want some information here and i

4128
02:34:04,870 --> 02:34:03,200
would be very happy to help them out

4129
02:34:06,710 --> 02:34:04,880
with that let me ask you because we only

4130
02:34:08,070 --> 02:34:06,720
have a couple of minutes left before we

4131
02:34:09,190 --> 02:34:08,080
wrap things up

4132
02:34:11,190 --> 02:34:09,200
today

4133
02:34:11,990 --> 02:34:11,200
people looking at all this we're talking

4134
02:34:14,870 --> 02:34:12,000
about

4135
02:34:17,590 --> 02:34:14,880
a writer who lived and died decades ago

4136
02:34:19,590 --> 02:34:17,600
what can people starting out today what

4137
02:34:23,030 --> 02:34:19,600
should they know what can they learn

4138
02:34:25,670 --> 02:34:23,040
about hp lovecraft to come to appreciate

4139
02:34:27,670 --> 02:34:25,680
his work well i always tell people go

4140
02:34:29,830 --> 02:34:27,680
right to the primary sources like a

4141
02:34:31,429 --> 02:34:29,840
scholar would you know pick up a copy of

4142
02:34:33,830 --> 02:34:31,439
lovecraft's words probably one of the

4143
02:34:36,309 --> 02:34:33,840
best one would be the library of america

4144
02:34:38,150 --> 02:34:36,319
hardcover edition lovecraft tales that's

4145
02:34:39,910 --> 02:34:38,160
a good place to start out i wouldn't

4146
02:34:42,150 --> 02:34:39,920
just start out with cthulhu mythos

4147
02:34:44,790 --> 02:34:42,160
fiction because it's very uneven i mean

4148
02:34:46,389 --> 02:34:44,800
they have a lot of st jose keeps seems

4149
02:34:47,910 --> 02:34:46,399
like every month he's publishing a new

4150
02:34:49,990 --> 02:34:47,920
anthology or something so a lot of

4151
02:34:52,070 --> 02:34:50,000
people write this stuff but i say go the

4152
02:34:54,150 --> 02:34:52,080
source i've read a lot of the cthulhu

4153
02:34:56,389 --> 02:34:54,160
mythos fiction and it doesn't even come

4154
02:34:58,309 --> 02:34:56,399
close to what lovecraft himself could do

4155
02:35:00,150 --> 02:34:58,319
you know so they should read the actual

4156
02:35:02,550 --> 02:35:00,160
source documents and then if they want

4157
02:35:04,389 --> 02:35:02,560
to get into call practices they should

4158
02:35:05,750 --> 02:35:04,399
kind of pick up a copy of my book you

4159
02:35:07,429 --> 02:35:05,760
know give them a good overview of the

4160
02:35:09,830 --> 02:35:07,439
kind of magical systems they're in

4161
02:35:12,230 --> 02:35:09,840
operation today they actually do deal

4162
02:35:14,150 --> 02:35:12,240
with lovecraft's fictional constructs as

4163
02:35:15,910 --> 02:35:14,160
mythologies and then those constantinos

4164
02:35:17,910 --> 02:35:15,920
books and if you read all that stuff

4165
02:35:19,590 --> 02:35:17,920
from magic and theory and practice if

4166
02:35:21,670 --> 02:35:19,600
you read all that stuff then you'll kind

4167
02:35:23,110 --> 02:35:21,680
of find your way that's good all good

4168
02:35:24,469 --> 02:35:23,120
source document

4169
02:35:27,830 --> 02:35:24,479
waiting for you chris

4170
02:35:29,349 --> 02:35:27,840
oh you are

4171
02:35:31,349 --> 02:35:29,359
i was waiting for you um well that

4172
02:35:32,469 --> 02:35:31,359
sounds good john and um thank you so

4173
02:35:34,790 --> 02:35:32,479
much for

4174
02:35:38,150 --> 02:35:34,800
kind of cracking the uh the egg on this

4175
02:35:39,830 --> 02:35:38,160
particular topic here uh at the paracast

4176
02:35:41,110 --> 02:35:39,840
we don't do shows like this uh very

4177
02:35:43,190 --> 02:35:41,120
often and

4178
02:35:45,110 --> 02:35:43,200
it's it's always fun to have someone

4179
02:35:45,990 --> 02:35:45,120
that's as well researched and well read

4180
02:35:48,150 --> 02:35:46,000
as you

4181
02:35:50,150 --> 02:35:48,160
to talk about you guys putting up with

4182
02:35:51,510 --> 02:35:50,160
me putting up with all my skype issues

4183
02:35:53,110 --> 02:35:51,520
too and stuff but i think it'll be a

4184
02:35:55,030 --> 02:35:53,120
really good show and i'm gonna drop into

4185
02:35:57,270 --> 02:35:55,040
that form but i really gotta thank you

4186
02:35:58,790 --> 02:35:57,280
guys you know for uh having me be a

4187
02:36:00,550 --> 02:35:58,800
guest on this show it's been quite a lot

4188
02:36:03,030 --> 02:36:00,560
of fun you guys really know how to have

4189
02:36:05,110 --> 02:36:03,040
fun i've done a lot of these kind uh

4190
02:36:06,950 --> 02:36:05,120
radio or podcast things and you guys

4191
02:36:09,670 --> 02:36:06,960
have gotta be among the top of people

4192
02:36:10,630 --> 02:36:09,680
just having a just a good time

4193
02:36:12,389 --> 02:36:10,640
thank you

4194
02:36:14,950 --> 02:36:12,399
we appreciate that we try to uh the

4195
02:36:17,030 --> 02:36:14,960
truth it's entertainment but we're we're

4196
02:36:19,190 --> 02:36:17,040
deadly serious about the the quality of

4197
02:36:21,830 --> 02:36:19,200
education that we we're hoping that our

4198
02:36:23,990 --> 02:36:21,840
listenership is is getting we uh we

4199
02:36:26,710 --> 02:36:24,000
pride ourselves on our um

4200
02:36:28,469 --> 02:36:26,720
motto of separating signal from noise

4201
02:36:31,910 --> 02:36:28,479
we try to do things differently than a

4202
02:36:33,270 --> 02:36:31,920
lot of people here that's why the show

4203
02:36:36,550 --> 02:36:33,280
obviously gets a different kind of

4204
02:36:38,550 --> 02:36:36,560
reaction so for example we will often

4205
02:36:40,870 --> 02:36:38,560
bring on a guest and if they're

4206
02:36:41,910 --> 02:36:40,880
obviously playing games with us

4207
02:36:43,590 --> 02:36:41,920
and we think they don't know what

4208
02:36:45,270 --> 02:36:43,600
they're talking about or they give

4209
02:36:49,349 --> 02:36:45,280
explanations of what they do that comes

4210
02:36:51,270 --> 02:36:49,359
across as gibberish or word salad if we

4211
02:36:53,830 --> 02:36:51,280
find that we will

4212
02:36:56,150 --> 02:36:53,840
call them out on their word salad oh

4213
02:36:57,429 --> 02:36:56,160
yeah oh yeah extraordinary claims

4214
02:36:59,750 --> 02:36:57,439
require at least a little bit of

4215
02:37:02,469 --> 02:36:59,760
evidence and some common sense we can

4216
02:37:04,150 --> 02:37:02,479
dig that too okay once again for people

4217
02:37:06,950 --> 02:37:04,160
who want to know more about what you do

4218
02:37:09,270 --> 02:37:06,960
john stedman your last time at the bat

4219
02:37:09,990 --> 02:37:09,280
on this episode where did they check you

4220
02:37:14,950 --> 02:37:10,000
out

4221
02:37:16,790 --> 02:37:14,960
www.johnlsdeadman.com

4222
02:37:19,110 --> 02:37:16,800
they can check me out on facebook and

4223
02:37:20,550 --> 02:37:19,120
twitter i have a blog too you know so

4224
02:37:22,630 --> 02:37:20,560
they can check all the blogs i usually

4225
02:37:24,630 --> 02:37:22,640
put all my events on the blogs but i

4226
02:37:26,230 --> 02:37:24,640
like the facebook thing because i'm not

4227
02:37:27,830 --> 02:37:26,240
just promoting myself on the blog but

4228
02:37:30,150 --> 02:37:27,840
i'll put links to different things like

4229
02:37:31,750 --> 02:37:30,160
publications that i do i do a lot of

4230
02:37:33,910 --> 02:37:31,760
little publications

4231
02:37:35,910 --> 02:37:33,920
in addition to the book and things i

4232
02:37:37,670 --> 02:37:35,920
create you know sometimes i just have

4233
02:37:39,349 --> 02:37:37,680
postings i'll find a weird picture and

4234
02:37:42,070 --> 02:37:39,359
i'll comment on it's usually got some

4235
02:37:44,150 --> 02:37:42,080
words of wisdom or insight in so i have

4236
02:37:46,150 --> 02:37:44,160
a lot of fun on facebook so people want

4237
02:37:47,590 --> 02:37:46,160
to get me on facebook you know that's

4238
02:37:49,190 --> 02:37:47,600
probably a smart way to do it you'll

4239
02:37:51,190 --> 02:37:49,200
have links to everything that i do on

4240
02:37:53,110 --> 02:37:51,200
there so i guess those are the easiest

4241
02:37:55,830 --> 02:37:53,120
ways you can find us on twitter by the

4242
02:37:56,790 --> 02:37:55,840
way look for the powercast on twitter

4243
02:37:59,590 --> 02:37:56,800
look for

4244
02:38:02,230 --> 02:37:59,600
two powercast fan clubs a community and

4245
02:38:04,230 --> 02:38:02,240
a group i figured it out on facebook

4246
02:38:05,429 --> 02:38:04,240
you're the gold standard of paranormal

4247
02:38:07,270 --> 02:38:05,439
shows right is that why you call

4248
02:38:08,950 --> 02:38:07,280
yourself the gold standard i love that

4249
02:38:11,110 --> 02:38:08,960
one of our listeners called us that we

4250
02:38:14,150 --> 02:38:11,120
just picked up on it you could also find

4251
02:38:16,070 --> 02:38:14,160
chris's work at ourstrangeplanet.com you

4252
02:38:18,070 --> 02:38:16,080
can also order his books from there you

4253
02:38:19,870 --> 02:38:18,080
can find us also

4254
02:38:22,150 --> 02:38:19,880
if you check out

4255
02:38:23,910 --> 02:38:22,160
plus.thepowercast.com where we offer you

4256
02:38:25,910 --> 02:38:23,920
the powercast plus

4257
02:38:27,429 --> 02:38:25,920
the powercastplus is a subscription

4258
02:38:29,750 --> 02:38:27,439
service that consists of the after the

4259
02:38:31,190 --> 02:38:29,760
power cast podcast a commercial free

4260
02:38:33,830 --> 02:38:31,200
version of this show

4261
02:38:35,590 --> 02:38:33,840
classic episodes coming content from

4262
02:38:37,710 --> 02:38:35,600
paul kimball and more

4263
02:38:39,670 --> 02:38:37,720
that's the powercast plus starting at

4264
02:38:43,550 --> 02:38:39,680
1.49 a week

4265
02:38:46,309 --> 02:38:43,560
learn more at plus p l u s dot the

4266
02:38:48,150 --> 02:38:46,319
powercast.com john stedman thanks for

4267
02:38:49,590 --> 02:38:48,160
joining us on the power cast and

4268
02:39:04,230 --> 02:38:49,600
gentlemen thank you it's been really a

4269
02:39:09,990 --> 02:39:07,030
the paracast featuring jean steinberg

4270
02:39:12,950 --> 02:39:10,000
and christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

4271
02:39:14,710 --> 02:39:12,960
presentation of making the impossible

4272
02:39:18,790 --> 02:39:14,720
incorporated